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Sujet Master BPM MIDI Clock Output from VirtualDJ - Page: 1

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I am using VirtualDJ 7.05 Pro for Mac OS X 10.6.8 and cannot figure out how to output the master BPM as a MIDI Clock signal that I can then sync Ableton Suite 8.3 to.

I have managed to route the audio from Virtual DJ into Ableton Suite with no problems by simply using the built in loopback feature on my Saffire Pro 24 Firewire interface. What I need to be able to do is setup VirtualDJ to output the current master BPM as a MIDI signal that I can then slave Ableton Suite to. This will allow me to start using BPM aware effects. Giving Ableton knowledge of the BPM is essential for accurately using certain looping and slicing plugins that I use in my Ableton environment to process the incoming audio signal from VirtualDJ with.

Please help me figure this out. I know that this feature exists in Traktor, so I'm hoping it exists for all of us professional users of VirtualDJ as well, but I can not find the documentation or instructions on how to accomplish it anywhere.
 

Posté Sat 22 Sep 12 @ 11:33 pm
Google is your friend ..... loads of threads about this on the forum already Here :)

Keith

 

Posté Sun 23 Sep 12 @ 12:11 am
kradcliffe wrote :
Google is your friend ..... loads of threads about this on the forum already Here :)

Keith



I have not been able to find a solution on Google even after extensive querying. I cannot find a solution here on the forums either, hence my initiation of this thread.

I looked at the thread you linked me to, and despite SBDJ claiming "Its already stated as implemented and is configurable via registry tool. Ive never used it myself though.", I downloaded the Macintosh version of the registry tool and could not locate the option anywhere.

I feel like I'm getting the run around. Can someone please provide me with more detailed instructions?
 

Posté Sun 23 Sep 12 @ 4:18 am
You don't need to sync Live by using MIDI clock out from VDJ.....because VDJ is ReWire enabled.

You use ReWire to keep Live in sync with VDJ. Set VDJ as the master (it can only be master) and slave Live to VDJ. Job done!

It's on page 18 of the VDJ Audio Setup Guide.
 

Posté Sun 23 Sep 12 @ 7:31 am
groovindj wrote :
You don't need to sync Live by using MIDI clock out from VDJ.....because VDJ is ReWire enabled.

You use ReWire to keep Live in sync with VDJ. Set VDJ as the master (it can only be master) and slave Live to VDJ. Job done!

It's on page 18 of the VDJ Audio Setup Guide.


The process you have described is not at all what I'm trying to accomplish. Page 18 of the setup guide describes how to use ReWire to run audio into VirtualDJ. I'm not trying to do this. I already have successfully routed my audio from VirtualDJ into Ableton, using the built in virtual loopback function of my Saffire Pro 24, as described in my original post. I need instructions on how to enable sending the MIDI Clock output of VirtualDJ. No one has provided me with a legitimate answer so far.
 

Posté Sun 23 Sep 12 @ 7:58 am
You can use ReWire to sync Ableton Live to VDJ.

If you want to play songs in VDJ and have Live stay in sync to them and run loops etc. then that's the way to do it.
 

Posté Sun 23 Sep 12 @ 11:35 am
AdvokutPRO InfinityMember since 2010
I think the OP wants to get VDJ´s sound into ableton to process it in ableton, and does not want to get ableton´s sound into vdj via rewire

I once used a little plugin for ableton called bpm2midi , that did quite a good job by letting ableton analyze VDJ´s bpm in real time without a midi clock. I dont think anyone here ever got the midi out to work correctly
 

Posté Sun 23 Sep 12 @ 12:48 pm
groovindj wrote :
You can use ReWire to sync Ableton Live to VDJ.

If you want to play songs in VDJ and have Live stay in sync to them and run loops etc. then that's the way to do it.


I'm pretty sure that you have yet to read my original post. ReWire has nothing to do with what I'm trying to accomplish, and the Page 18 in the audio setup guide clearly states that ReWire is for using VirtualDJ to process an incoming signal being sent from Ableton. I don't know how to make it any more clear that this is not what I need, or want to do. I am sending my master mix right into Ableton using hardware. My Saffire Pro 24 audio card can reroute signals internally using hardware, bypassing the need for a software solution like ReWire. It doesn't even have anything to do with my original question, which involves me simply desiring to know how to use the MIDI Clock output function. If you have never used any old school MIDI hardware and had it all synced to one master device outputting a BPM clock signal in MIDI form, then my issue is probably very foreign to you.

If however, you DO understand what I described in my original post, and know how to slave Ableton to a MIDI Clock signal coming from VirtualDJ, then I would appreciate some more help than just saying "Use ReWire".

Advokut wrote :
I think the OP wants to get VDJ´s sound into ableton to process it in ableton, and does not want to get ableton´s sound into vdj via rewire

I once used a little plugin for ableton called bpm2midi , that did quite a good job by letting ableton analyze VDJ´s bpm in real time without a midi clock. I dont think anyone here ever got the midi out to work correctly


Exactly. Thank you for taking time to understand and read my post. I'm not really wanting to rely on some plugin to "translate" audio to a MIDI Clock signal. If it's going to be done like that, then I will just use my good rhythmic accuracy to tap in the BPM into Ableton (I can come within 0.01 accuracy of the displayed BPM accuracy in VirtualDJ) in real time. Still, this is not what I'm wanting to do...I'm just wanting to have the Master BPM (or even the beatgrid pulse) be output as a MIDI Clock signal that I can then slave Ableton's Master BPM clock to.


If anyone has a solution to my still unanswered question, please let me know. Thanks!
 

Posté Sun 23 Sep 12 @ 6:40 pm
AdvokutPRO InfinityMember since 2010
I dont think that it is possible to get the midi clock from VDJ into Ableton i´m afraid but that doesnt mean we cant archive your goal somehow i am sure

just to make sure i understand everything correctly. You mix songs in VDJ and use your external soundcard to get VDJ´s output into ableton, where you apply beat synchronised effects? You do not want to play loops that automatically start on the downbeat but just want the BPM from VDJ in Ableton?

Than i would really like you to try out the bpm2midi plugin for ableton. It analyses the incoming sound inside of Ableton in real-time, so you do not need to edit Ableton´s bpm manually per hand, for example when you change from house genre to hip-hop ( 130-90). As you go from 130 to 120 to 110 and so on in VDJ, Ableton does the same automatically because the plugin scans the sound and sets the bpm accordingly.

But this way you wont be able to start loops on the downbeat automatically

If you want to start loops on the downbeat in Ableton, than you could use rewire, but as stated before wont have vdj´s sound inside ableton. so this is no solution, just a possible workflow which doesnt suit your needs

Normally these would be your options, but i just thought about it a little further and want to suggest the following to you if you dont mind. I dont know if it does work or not, but i think it should. Here it goes:

Setup VDJ and Ableton via rewire as described in the manual. This puts ableton in rewire mode, and it gets VDJ´s bpm AND most importantly, the beatgrid information that you need to let ableton start on the downbeat.

Now, if i understand your setup correctly you could use your hardware to get the outcoming sound from vdj into ableton, which in return is temposynced to vdj, creating a soundloop. Turn down the ableton-deck in vdj to mute it, and mix as usual.

Maybe there a limitations on the software side in ableton. I dont know if you can still use your ableton soundsetup this way, or if you are greyed out in the options menu. Give it a try, i hope that it works somehow or atleast i somehow gave a hint to the right direction

greetings
 

Posté Sun 23 Sep 12 @ 8:15 pm
Advokut wrote :
just to make sure i understand everything correctly. You mix songs in VDJ and use your external soundcard to get VDJ´s output into ableton, where you apply beat synchronised effects? You do not want to play loops that automatically start on the downbeat but just want the BPM from VDJ in Ableton?


Exactly. Thank you for taking the time to read my original post. I truly appreciate it. You are the first person to truly pay any attention to my issue at hand! :)

Advokut wrote :
Than i would really like you to try out the bpm2midi plugin for ableton. It analyses the incoming sound inside of Ableton in real-time, so you do not need to edit Ableton´s bpm manually per hand, for example when you change from house genre to hip-hop ( 130-90). As you go from 130 to 120 to 110 and so on in VDJ, Ableton does the same automatically because the plugin scans the sound and sets the bpm accordingly.


This is exactly what I'm trying to achieve, except I wanted to be able to use the "SendMidiClockTo: [added in v7.0.3]" Registry value to do so. According to Atomix, it is an option that can be toggled via their registry tool (http://www.virtualdj.com/wiki/RegistryValues.html). I'm running version 7.0.5 Pro, and have downloaded the registry tool for Macintosh and do not see the option anywhere.

I'd love to try the bpm2midi plugin you are talking about, but I cannot find a Macintosh version of it anywhere. Could you provide me with a URL for the Macintosh version (AU or VST would both be fine)?

Advokut wrote :
But this way you wont be able to start loops on the downbeat automatically


Thankfully, this wouldn't be an issue. I'm not trying to play ANY loops or clips in Ableton at all, I'm just trying to let Ableton become aware of the master BPM tempo in VirtualDJ so I can play perfect stutters and re-arranged loops with some of my favorite plugins in Ableton.

Advokut wrote :
If you want to start loops on the downbeat in Ableton, than you could use rewire, but as stated before wont have vdj´s sound inside ableton. so this is no solution, just a possible workflow which doesnt suit your needs


ReWire is not an option for me, as it only allows sound to travel from Ableton (or whatever application one prefers) into VirtualDJ. Once an application has become a ReWire slave, you can not choose any incoming audio options for that application. So even though I'm doing a loopback through hardware, as soon as I launch Ableton as a ReWire slave to VirtualDJ, I lose all my sound input abilities for Ableton.

Advokut wrote :
Normally these would be your options, but i just thought about it a little further and want to suggest the following to you if you dont mind. I dont know if it does work or not, but i think it should. Here it goes:

Setup VDJ and Ableton via rewire as described in the manual. This puts ableton in rewire mode, and it gets VDJ´s bpm AND most importantly, the beatgrid information that you need to let ableton start on the downbeat.

Now, if i understand your setup correctly you could use your hardware to get the outcoming sound from vdj into ableton, which in return is temposynced to vdj, creating a soundloop. Turn down the ableton-deck in vdj to mute it, and mix as usual.

Maybe there a limitations on the software side in ableton. I dont know if you can still use your ableton soundsetup this way, or if you are greyed out in the options menu. Give it a try, i hope that it works somehow or atleast i somehow gave a hint to the right direction


Yes, this does make Ableton aware of VirtualDJ's tempo, but once again, I cannot choose to route sound into Ableton (via hardware or ReWire or other software) once Ableton has been launched as a ReWire slave to VirtualDJ. Very disappointing. :(

Advokut wrote :
greetings


Greetings to you as well, my friend! Thank you so much for actually taking the time to respond with thought and detail. Thank you for not just saying "use ReWire" like everyone else has (they truly don't understand what I'm trying to accomplish -- which are some next level hybrid sets combining the power of Ableton Suite and all my custom FX plugins with the flexibility of live mixing platters from VirtualDJ). I really do appreciate your suggestions, but I've tried them all and sadly none of them work as a solution.

I truly don't understand how if VirtualDJ can send the BPM/tempo/beatgrid information to ReWire, why it couldn't be sent to the IAC MIDI host in OS X as well. I'm also still wondering why Atomix says there is the option to "SendMIDIClock" (added in 7.0.3) yet it is absolutely nowhere to be found in the Macintosh Registry Editor tool they provide.

Thanks again for all of your assistance. I'm still very eager to find an answer.


This problem still remains unsolved. Are there any brilliant minds out there with a solution?
 

Posté Mon 24 Sep 12 @ 3:14 am
FYI Secret Beats, I have a lot of experience with using MIDI - both hardware (synths, drum machines, samplers) and software since the days of the Atari ST and even before MIDI became available on music equipment.

I started buying gear when CV and Gate was still being used and there was no standard way of connecting one thing to another for sync.

I do know what I'm talking about.

ReWire has clock sync, so when you ReWire two programs, the slave program will stay in sync with the master program.

You keep asking about "slaving Live to VDJ", sending MIDI out of VDJ for Live to sync with - well if you use ReWire then Live will sync with VDJ.

That's the solution. VDJ has to be the master.

Forget about getting a MIDI clock out of VDJ - it doesn't work!!!

On the other hand, there are various bits of DJ hardware that will "listen" to incoming audio and generate a MIDI clock from that, which can be sent to wherever you like. The Korg KP3, the Pioneer EFX units etc.

EDIT: I have found a forum post from cstoll of Atomix (made in 2011) that states MIDI clock out from VDJ doesn't work with Mac, but allegedly does work on PC. Still, lots of people have tried to get it working (on PC) but failed.

 

Posté Mon 24 Sep 12 @ 5:03 am
groovindj wrote :
You keep asking about "slaving Live to VDJ", sending MIDI out of VDJ for Live to sync with - well if you use ReWire then Live will sync with VDJ.

That's the solution. VDJ has to be the master.


This is not the solution my friend. This would prevent me from even being able to run the audio from VirtualDJ into Ableton, which I am currently doing without the use of ReWire or any other software. I'm able to do this because of the built in loopback present in my audio interface. ReWire is designed to flow completely in reverse of the way I'm currently sending my audio information.

groovindj wrote :
Forget about getting a MIDI clock out of VDJ - it doesn't work!!!


If it doesn't work I do not understand why Atomix would provide a registry tool for the enabling of a parameter called "SendMIDIClockTo" -- it's right here in the official Registry Value list: http://www.virtualdj.com/wiki/RegistryValues.html

If it's not a valid registry option, then Atomix should remove it or clarify what it's meant to do!

groovindj wrote :
On the other hand, there are various bits of DJ hardware that will "listen" to incoming audio and generate a MIDI clock from that, which can be sent to wherever you like. The Korg KP3, the Pioneer EFX units etc.


This is an interesting solution, but alas it would add more gear and cost to my setup. :(

groovindj wrote :
EDIT: I have found a forum post from cstoll of Atomix (made in 2011) that states MIDI clock out from VDJ doesn't work with Mac, but allegedly does work on PC. Still, lots of people have tried to get it working (on PC) but failed.


This seems unfair to me. I don't see why Windows users should benefit from a feature when Macintosh users are paying the same cost for the software.

Thanks for the ideas. I guess for now I'm just going to manually tap the BPM into Ableton Live using a MIDI drum pad or something of the likes. I know that Traktor has MIDI Clock Output as an option you can enable simply through the Traktor software preferences. Atomix needs to step their game up! Surely if there is a way to send MIDI Clock information to ReWire to make Ableton a slave there is also a way to send it to the virtual IAC MIDI bus built into OS X.


It seems there is currently no way to do this with VirtualDJ unless someone can confirm that they have and provide instructions.
 

Posté Mon 24 Sep 12 @ 6:07 am
If you care to search on here or via Google you'll see that people have been asking for MIDI clock since at least 2005, and although Atomix have tried to add it, it's always been a struggle for people to get it working.

For example it was once in the main program (as VDJScript probably) but now it's been relegated to a registry entry.

Even now, with Atomix claiming that it works on PC, there are lots of posts from people who've failed to make it work.

There's lots of "hidden" things in VDJ that have been added to the code over the years, which haven't seen much love from Atomix, and even things that have been removed because Atomix decided that nobody uses it - like DMX.
 

Posté Mon 24 Sep 12 @ 6:28 am
groovindj wrote :
If you care to search on here or via Google you'll see that people have been asking for MIDI clock since at least 2005, and although Atomix have tried to add it, it's always been a struggle for people to get it working.

For example it was once in the main program (as VDJScript probably) but now it's been relegated to a registry entry.

Even now, with Atomix claiming that it works on PC, there are lots of posts from people who've failed to make it work.

There's lots of "hidden" things in VDJ that have been added to the code over the years, which haven't seen much love from Atomix, and even things that have been removed because Atomix decided that nobody uses it - like DMX.


This makes me kind of sad to read. All of the most incredible electronic jam bands that I love to listen to all rely heavily on MIDI Clock output and synchronization setups. Some of the best DJs need this functionality as well. The MIDI Clock output function on Traktor is used by quite a few people, and if the team at Native Instruments can make it a readily available option in their software, I don't see why the team at Atomix couldn't do the same thing.

It's pretty depressing to know that a feature has been requested for 7 years. MIDI has been around since the 80s. Complex or not, there are still people like me who want to use it to take their live performances to the next level. If they implemented MIDI Clock output I could really start combining my love for Ableton Suite and my love for VirtualDJ in perfect time, but not if they don't add the features that the people obviously desire in the software. I have done a LOT of googling and searching of the VirtualDJ forum as well, and that was what made me want to start a new thread up about "SendMIDIClockTo".

As per DMX, I know an incredible amount of lighting technicians who use DMX control on their lights and lasers. In the underground EDM scene there is definitely prevalent use of DMX-enabled lighting chains, and they are super cool! :)


Can anyone from Atomix shed any light on this situation? Does your registry value of "SendMIDIClockTo" work? If not, why is it included in the list of available registry values here on the website? Why does Traktor have this feature but not VirtualDJ?
 

Posté Mon 24 Sep 12 @ 6:42 am
I would suggest you forward your message to cstoll or drop him a message with a link to this thread.
 

Posté Mon 24 Sep 12 @ 6:46 am
AdvokutPRO InfinityMember since 2010
[quote=Secret Beats]]I'd love to try the bpm2midi plugin you are talking about, but I cannot find a Macintosh version of it anywhere. Could you provide me with a URL for the Macintosh version (AU or VST would both be fine)?

i am looking for the link atm, will provide it to you later today, if not upload the plugin for you. It is a ableton plugin which i found in a forum last year when i used smartmixing miself ( mix vdj´s sound in ableton) but soonly found out about the limitations/ not working sendmidiclock

But i have just another question. If you only need Ableton to add VST effects to VDJ´s sound, why dont you just use the VST´s in VDJ as it is VST compatible. I use Turnado and StutterEdit inside of VDJ without a need for Ableton to process the effects. This would give you the option to use your non-vdj effects ( ableton effects) but you wouldnt need to get the bpm to ableton cause you would not need ableton at all. Only VST inside of VirtualDJ.

Does that help you somehow?

btw i am glad that i can possibly help you. Please keep in mind that your question is indeed a really tough one, and most of the times people try to archive exactly the opposite thing, i.e. rewire ableton to VDJ. I am sure that its just a case of "cant see the trees in the wood" thats responsible that you did not get the desired answer from the other contributors to the thread, as it is a quite rare question. Surely the other members that answered to you are willing to help too, as they allways do a outstanding job when it comes to supporting the forum. Thanks for your kind words anyways :)
 

Posté Mon 24 Sep 12 @ 6:49 am
Advokut wrote :
But i have just another question. If you only need Ableton to add VST effects to VDJ´s sound, why dont you just use the VST´s in VDJ as it is VST compatible. I use Turnado and StutterEdit inside of VDJ without a need for Ableton to process the effects. This would give you the option to use your non-vdj effects ( ableton effects) but you wouldnt need to get the bpm to ableton cause you would not need ableton at all. Only VST inside of VirtualDJ.

Does that help you somehow?


It would, and I would go this route, but Atomix has left Macintosh users behind when it comes to effects support. Only Windows users can use VSTs with VirtualDJ even though VSTs are available for both Windows and Macintosh computers. Atomix also fails to support the native Macintosh CoreAudio plugin format known as AU (Audio Unit).

Basically, Macintosh users of VirtualDJ don't get treated as equals, it seems. :(

Advokut wrote :
btw i am glad that i can possibly help you. Please keep in mind that your question is indeed a really tough one, and most of the times people try to archive exactly the opposite thing, i.e. rewire ableton to VDJ. I am sure that its just a case of "cant see the trees in the wood" thats responsible that you did not get the desired answer from the other contributors to the thread, as it is a quite rare question. Surely the other members that answered to you are willing to help too, as they allways do a outstanding job when it comes to supporting the forum. Thanks for your kind words anyways :)


The best thing we can do here on the forums is treat each other with kindness and respect. Thanks again for the advice! If you end up finding a Macintosh version of that bpm2midi plugin, let me know! :)


...the quest for MIDI Clock Output continues...
 

Posté Mon 24 Sep 12 @ 7:16 am
groovindj wrote :
I would suggest you forward your message to cstoll or drop him a message with a link to this thread.


Done. Thanks for the advice. :)
 

Posté Mon 24 Sep 12 @ 7:17 am
SBDJPRO Infinity Member since 2006
I've just tested MIDI Clock on the PC version. I enabled the output on the registry tool and my sniffer showed Timing Clock on the selected output.

The Mac version of the Registry Tool is missing this setting, however it exists in the Property List. I attempted to enable it but was unsuccessful, however this could be because I could have incorrect MIDI naming, or it could be because it doesn't work on the Mac version. I'm not a Mac expert I'm afraid!
 

Posté Mon 24 Sep 12 @ 12:10 pm
AdvokutPRO InfinityMember since 2010
sorry to hear about VST´s not working on MAC. Is it a solution for you to run bootcamp or in case its a IBM mac, boot directly into windows? This way you should be able to use VST´s in mac, or is it still not possible?
 

Posté Mon 24 Sep 12 @ 1:08 pm
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