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yes i am mixing directly in the controller

What we need is something that connects to an xlr cable with a Db meter, that way just set everything from that, simple ;-)

I wonder on the controllers for example, is the 0Db really 0Db or is it -3Db or -6Db
 
That scenario would mean you wouldn't be affected by VDJ's master limiter, but the channel limiters can still have an impact.
Your active speakers should be set at their line level gain setting.

Then you just control your desired volume with the master on your control, keeping its output averaging at 0db or lower. Peaking into the +3 or so through the beats is fine. And stay out of your speakers limiter lights.
If you find you don't have enough room loudness at that point, you may need a bigger system for what your trying to do.
 
paulpa66 wrote :
yes i am mixing directly in the controller

What we need is something that connects to an xlr cable with a Db meter, that way just set everything from that, simple ;-)

I wonder on the controllers for example, is the 0Db really 0Db or is it -3Db or -6Db


There is a way to measure your outputs using a voltage meter and a test tone. I use it to set up my limiting and gain staging on my passive amps. When I get back to the computer, I'll get a link for that procedure.
 
Here is a quick past out of a note on my phone. It's not as descriptive as the link.. It's down and dirty. Also, running test tones at high volume through speakers can damage them and your ears. Heed that warning.

Set gain on amp
V=squareroot(W*R)

0 dBu Preferred informal abbreviation for the official dB (0.775 V); a voltage reference point equal to 0.775 Vrms.

+4 dBu Standard pro audio voltage reference level equal to 1.23 Vrms.

0 dBV Preferred informal abbreviation for the official dB (1.0 V); a voltage reference point equal to 1.0 Vrms.

-10 dBV Standard voltage reference level for consumer and some pro audio use (e.g. TASCAM), equal to 0.316 Vrms. (Tip: RCA connectors are a good indicator of units operating at -10 dBV levels.)

Ooh (whispered) ~125-300Hz
Uh (whispered) ~160-400Hz
Aahh (whispered) ~200-500Hz
K (no vowel) ~500-2,000Hz
Ch (no vowel) ~2,000-6,000Hz
S (no vowel) ~4,000-12,000Hz

Oooh, deep U ~100-250Hz
O ~200-400Hz
Ahh ~300-600Hz
A ~500-1,000Hz
E ~800-2,000Hz
Eeeee (chipmunky) ~1,600 and up
 
So many people have different ideas, some seem to run at +9Db on channel gains all yellows on?

Personally i have always done it this way (assuming VDJ Master is on max, EQ all at 12 o,clock and gains at 12 o'clock)

So with no speakers connected
1) Play good dance track good beat some bass and adjust my controller channel gain to around +3Db with controller EQ all at 12 0'clock ( that is about 10 0,clock on my Denon)
2) move channel fader right up then adjust master controller gain to similar +3Db ( about 1 o'clock on my Denon)
3) Then connect speakers, Currently at parity 12 o'clock, but can turn up if required still with no clipping

That way i can still turn up master and channel gains up a few Db if required still without clipping ( out of the red)
 
Just remember that 0dB on a digital system (i.e. VDJ) is the absolute maximum output, whereas analogue circuitry has headroom, so 0dB could be 12 or more dB below where you'd start getting distortion.

Unfortunately there's no easy way of telling whether the VU meters in a typical controller are being fed digitally or from an analogue circuit.

They could even be mixed (channel meters digital and output meter analogue).
 
Your hitting on a key thing with everyone having different ideas. Then add in variances in equipment standards, and meter inaccuracies or padding. the best way is to measure your signal chain, learn where your meters read true 0db, and stay out of the clip lights.
My gain structure calculations get used with any of my new gear so I can see where it clips and how it reacts with different signals. When I am running live sound for an 8 piece band, there are a lot more things to keep in check then a couple stereo channels.
I was just letting you know there is a way to measure it. There are also XLR & RCA decibel meters that you can leave inline to watch your gear. I have a DBX Driverack at the end of my signal chain for one of my rugs just to keep things in check.
 
groovindj wrote :
Just remember that 0dB on a digital system (i.e. VDJ) is the absolute maximum output, whereas analogue circuitry has headroom, so 0dB could be 12 or more dB below where you'd start getting distortion.


A good point that I hadn't gotten to yet. Thanks for that.
I run into that during recording. I have to run -12db and lower depending on my source to make sure I don't clip.
Analog clips are usually more forgiving then digital clips. Some times they only color the sound.
A digital clip actually flattens out the peaks of the sound wave. It's very noticeable.
 
So if 0dB on a digital system (i.e. VDJ) is the absolute maximum output, should we be setting VDJ to -3db on all tracks?
 
 
Problem not occurred since. But just want to now get my system running as it should with correct gains etc on my new active setup
 
paulpa66 wrote :
So if 0dB on a digital system (i.e. VDJ) is the absolute maximum output, should we be setting VDJ to -3db on all tracks?


This is where I set mine, via the zerodb setting when VDJ8 first came out. Then it was a number value, 0.75 if I remember, now you can specify the db
 
However, this is also partially dependent on the music in your library. How much larger the peaks are compared to the average analyzed volume of the whole track. This is probably why they don't just set it there to begin with.
 
So at minus -3db on VDJ modern songs say like Ed Sheeran Sing go up half way on the channel VU meters, is that what i should aim for from VDJ, then move onto my controller as the next stage of setting up, probably turning up my gains on that now.
My library goes from swing to house and Drum N Bass

Older stuff is much higher at -3Db still

Guess i need to turn up to a gig earlier and play around with no one there.
Will try -3db tonight see how it goes, although tonight will be modern stuff
Maybe then i can turn my controller gains to 12 o,clock
 
I'm posting from my iPad tonight, so I can't look up any specific songs. I can't remember if VDJ's internal limiter is pre channel fader.
Another issue is you might miss the clip indicator because of skin refresh time, etc. So, it may actually clip on a tremendous bass hit, but you don't see it.
When I have my zerodb in the settings at -3db, I have only clipped on a few rare songs. These I used an audio program to adjust the track permanently. I run my internal channel faders all the way up.
 
Like i say, modern music is fine, but older stuff has much higher vu indications db levels setting at -3db may help them as i know they clip quite often in vdj
 
You'll have to forgive me as it's now 07:00 in my area, sun is coming up, and I need to get to sleep.
I'll have to continue this conversation later.
 
What I will add is that since I mix externally, like you, I'm not as worried about some tracks being a little quieter in their source. I always seek to a loud part of the song and set the gain for the track on my external mixer. I check every track. I do this just like I would if I was mixing CD's. They are not recorded at the same volume as others.

Goodnight
 
Now that we have the option to have an effect plug-in on the channels and the master, you could (for example) use a compressor plug-in on each deck/channel, then a maximizer on the master output.

A compressor will even out the differences between the quiet and loud parts on older tracks (reduce the dynamic range) and this can be adjusted. A ratio between 2:1 and 3:1 is a good starting point that won't "squash" the music too much. Then a maximizer will be able to boost the average level of the track (make it sound louder) without going into the red.

Maximizers tend to get used on todays music a lot, because everyone wants their track to be louder than everyone else, and it's an easy thing to slap on the mix when mastering in a DAW (which is how the vast majority of music now is recorded).

I used to (when I used CDs) run a hardware compressor/limiter in my amp rack to do this job, but now I actually edit any tracks that really need it in Adobe Audition or Ableton Live.
 
You mean a plugin to VDJ? i prefer not too simply because it adds one more bit of software that can cause issue, i,ll just set to -3Db, then with keyboard use the -1db to manually adjust those old tracks and have vdj remember it.
@blckjck thanks
 
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