sjursjur
What are peoples experience with using Serato TCV's with VDJ?
Posté Sun 12 Aug 07 @ 11:46 pm
Serato's soundcard and TCV doesn't work that well with VDJ. If you want to use the SSL soundcard with VDJ first go Serato's site and download the asio driver (available w/ the latest download 7.2) Then hook up the SSL soundcard and run VDJ. Go to the config/sound setup and select ASIO soundcard in the drop down menu. Then just use VDJ's TCVs and your golden.
Posté Mon 13 Aug 07 @ 1:28 am
sjursjur
yeah... that's the thing. It's just the ssl vinyls i'm curious on. I know they are slightly wrong pitch-wise, and needle drop doesn't work well, but how do they track and respond?
Posté Mon 13 Aug 07 @ 3:08 am
Andrew87
sjursjur I would recommend some reading over at the djDecks forum, that software supports serato vinyl, final scratch, virtualdj and more. Their users tend to use similar setups and soundcards to people on these boards too.
Posté Mon 13 Aug 07 @ 3:13 am
sjursjur
I see, thanks for the tip Andrew.
Posté Mon 13 Aug 07 @ 3:43 am
Andrew87
Of course how Serato reacts with VirtualDJ could be different, but until you get some more replies it may be worth checking their forums out. I would have thought that they would react in similar ways with thirdparty software using a soundcard which isn't the official ssl box. Much more relevent however is this post which may lead you to some interesting conclusions (k_one in another thread reports the main problem with the SSL vinyl is an offset of about 6% and no needle drop support):
http://www.virtualdj.com/forums/62138/General_Discussion/VDJ_timecodes_ARE_hopeless__period___-_will_Virtual_Vinyl_help_.html
Most of the complaints in this thread are aimed at the gen2 vinyl and it is 8 months old.
http://www.virtualdj.com/forums/62138/General_Discussion/VDJ_timecodes_ARE_hopeless__period___-_will_Virtual_Vinyl_help_.html
Most of the complaints in this thread are aimed at the gen2 vinyl and it is 8 months old.
Posté Mon 13 Aug 07 @ 3:48 am
sjursjur
Thanks again Andrew. That thread is interesting reading. Now, I have both gen1's and gen3 (VV ones). The gen3's are unfortunately warped and are performing really lousy. What is cool though, is that with the numark VV interface my trusty, old, nearly worn out gen1's are performing much better than with the u46dj and maya44. Strange, but true. Still looking for perfection though... VDJ always seemed to have slight problems cueing backwards. Beat juggling is not very well suited for vdj as far as I've experienced. Really curious to what the next release has in store.
Posté Mon 13 Aug 07 @ 4:41 am
Andrew87
It would be nice if their timecode support was more stable. Download the djDecks demo and the VirtualDJ plugin and you may find yourself quite impressed; despite the plugin being 3 years old now.
The software doesn't have that raw sexiness of VDJ (heh, that sounds kinda wrong) but the Timecode support is good. I tested this just this moment and my warped vinyl cannot hold their pitch with VirtualDJ, one will drift ahead of the other and you get a trainwreck. djDecks seems to be able to keep both tracks together and work better in general, although maybe this is just because I'm using a low quality soundcard - the Mk2.
If you have two 7 minute trance tracks playing together with djDecks, they will stay together. With my current setup I cannot say the same for VirtualDJ. djDecks also seems to handle pops or clicks better. With VirtualDJ sometimes such an issue will cause a deck to lag and the other will float ahead - although admittedly I probably shouldn't be multitasking when I have such software open anyway. Another area which I like in djDecks is it actually tells you what percentage the deck is operating at. VirtualDJ seems to get confused if you change the pitch too quickly and will just flatly report 12% or something. If I run my deck at 78rpm +50%, djDecks will report it correctly.
I hope I don't offend anyone with this, obviously I do prefer VirtualDJ otherwise I wouldn't have just spent money to buy a new soundcard and new pair of vinyl. But I think anyone can admit that djDecks does have some nice support. If I run an ASIO card at 48khz, djDecks will still report the pitch correctly (the Mk2 operates at lower latency in 48khz vs 44.1khz), VirtualDJ has an offset which you can do nothing about.
The software doesn't have that raw sexiness of VDJ (heh, that sounds kinda wrong) but the Timecode support is good. I tested this just this moment and my warped vinyl cannot hold their pitch with VirtualDJ, one will drift ahead of the other and you get a trainwreck. djDecks seems to be able to keep both tracks together and work better in general, although maybe this is just because I'm using a low quality soundcard - the Mk2.
If you have two 7 minute trance tracks playing together with djDecks, they will stay together. With my current setup I cannot say the same for VirtualDJ. djDecks also seems to handle pops or clicks better. With VirtualDJ sometimes such an issue will cause a deck to lag and the other will float ahead - although admittedly I probably shouldn't be multitasking when I have such software open anyway. Another area which I like in djDecks is it actually tells you what percentage the deck is operating at. VirtualDJ seems to get confused if you change the pitch too quickly and will just flatly report 12% or something. If I run my deck at 78rpm +50%, djDecks will report it correctly.
I hope I don't offend anyone with this, obviously I do prefer VirtualDJ otherwise I wouldn't have just spent money to buy a new soundcard and new pair of vinyl. But I think anyone can admit that djDecks does have some nice support. If I run an ASIO card at 48khz, djDecks will still report the pitch correctly (the Mk2 operates at lower latency in 48khz vs 44.1khz), VirtualDJ has an offset which you can do nothing about.
Posté Mon 13 Aug 07 @ 5:03 am
sjursjur
I see...
I don't have any of the problems that you mention witn any of my three soundcards, my only nags are with tracking performance, and especially backwards as I've mentioned some times now, and that VDJ sometimes has trouble finding the beginning of the track if i cue back and forth at the start of the track. The feedback issue that was raised in the thread you linked to, never happend to me. I tried djDecks some time ago, but found it very unsexy, and unstable. Things may have changed, but I really do prefer VDJ over any other software. I'll give djDecks a go though, just to check if some of the issues may be due to the software itself or the actual tcv.
I don't have any of the problems that you mention witn any of my three soundcards, my only nags are with tracking performance, and especially backwards as I've mentioned some times now, and that VDJ sometimes has trouble finding the beginning of the track if i cue back and forth at the start of the track. The feedback issue that was raised in the thread you linked to, never happend to me. I tried djDecks some time ago, but found it very unsexy, and unstable. Things may have changed, but I really do prefer VDJ over any other software. I'll give djDecks a go though, just to check if some of the issues may be due to the software itself or the actual tcv.
Posté Mon 13 Aug 07 @ 5:19 am
Andrew87
It's most likely the tcv. I think the reason djDecks worked with my tcv (which are slightly warped, it's not so much VirtualDJ's fault as the software assumes all tcv used with it are perfect) is because djDecks has a smoothing control and you can calibrate a vinyl pitch fluctuation offset (one side of my vinyl is 0.003 and the other 0.005, I don't think they're supposed to be that high/different!). Both of my vinyl have a bad and a decent side, although if I calibrate the bad side with djDecks, that software will then work ok with them. Tracking I've never had a problem with, although I always use absolute mode because I like the vinyl interface. If you're using smart or relative, have you tried disabling anti-skip?
My only real issue with VirtualDJ's timecode is 48khz isn't supported properly. The other things can be worked around. Who needs a reading at +50% 78rpm anyway hehe.
Good luck though, I know what a pain in the ... warped timecodes are.
My only real issue with VirtualDJ's timecode is 48khz isn't supported properly. The other things can be worked around. Who needs a reading at +50% 78rpm anyway hehe.
Good luck though, I know what a pain in the ... warped timecodes are.
Posté Mon 13 Aug 07 @ 5:34 am
blazemonger
The reason VDJ has issues with 48 KHz tracks (If so, I would not know) has nothing to do with the timecode. VDJ timecode is nowhere near as solid as most others right now in my experience. While I may still use VDJ on gigs where I want/need video, any timecode (or other) gig means I load up djDecks right now.
VDJ does not support Serato TC, that happens by accident and is more an oversight then an undocumented feature (the margin for error on the TC detections seems a bit wide to put it mildly). The support of the Serato audio box was a cool gimmick when don, but right now it means nothing IMO.. No serious Serato user would consider VDJ the better product, at best they would consider it a good sidekick if they need video..
VDJ is a cool and good product, but as I said before (IMO) it does a bit of everything without being best at anything.
VDJ does not support Serato TC, that happens by accident and is more an oversight then an undocumented feature (the margin for error on the TC detections seems a bit wide to put it mildly). The support of the Serato audio box was a cool gimmick when don, but right now it means nothing IMO.. No serious Serato user would consider VDJ the better product, at best they would consider it a good sidekick if they need video..
VDJ is a cool and good product, but as I said before (IMO) it does a bit of everything without being best at anything.
Posté Mon 13 Aug 07 @ 8:55 pm
Andrew87
I'm not saying VirtualDJ has issue with 48khz tracks. It most likely doesn't or all the people who mix DVD video would be begging for mercy, they seem to be very happy for the most part :)
My 48khz comment was aimed at running your asio soundcard at 48khz, in which case it does depend on how the Timecode signal is being read. djDecks can handle this fine, VirtualDJ doesn't. There is also some benefit to running at 48khz if you mix video, as resampling wouldn't have to occur. Also, people ripping vinyl (which is an analogue format) should probably use 48khz too. However, I suppose the amount of people using 48khz sources is so few that 48khz support isn't a priority for the developers.
I do find it strange that djDecks works more accurately than VirtualDJ with my VirtualDJ tcv, although the responsiveness doesn't seem to be quite as good. Hopefully when my new hardware comes everything with VirtualDJ will be working better than it does with djDecks. If that software had a skin like V Mix I would buy it instantly.
@sjursjur sorry to have thrown the thread off topic, I get a bit carried away sometimes :-(
My 48khz comment was aimed at running your asio soundcard at 48khz, in which case it does depend on how the Timecode signal is being read. djDecks can handle this fine, VirtualDJ doesn't. There is also some benefit to running at 48khz if you mix video, as resampling wouldn't have to occur. Also, people ripping vinyl (which is an analogue format) should probably use 48khz too. However, I suppose the amount of people using 48khz sources is so few that 48khz support isn't a priority for the developers.
I do find it strange that djDecks works more accurately than VirtualDJ with my VirtualDJ tcv, although the responsiveness doesn't seem to be quite as good. Hopefully when my new hardware comes everything with VirtualDJ will be working better than it does with djDecks. If that software had a skin like V Mix I would buy it instantly.
@sjursjur sorry to have thrown the thread off topic, I get a bit carried away sometimes :-(
Posté Mon 13 Aug 07 @ 9:02 pm
sjursjur
No sweat Andrew. I tend to do the same.
And thanks paulheu, nice input. I'm still hoping the next version will bring some improvements on TCV, and I think it will. I hear people say the same thing as you on Serato vs. VDJ, but still people who really know what they're talking about say that Virtual Vinyl's handling is ace as well (like the DJ mag review. That JFB is no rookie on the decks, I tell you). I'll guess I have to take Serato for a spin to see what the fuzz is all about, but it seems to lack some of the features i like in VDJ.
And thanks paulheu, nice input. I'm still hoping the next version will bring some improvements on TCV, and I think it will. I hear people say the same thing as you on Serato vs. VDJ, but still people who really know what they're talking about say that Virtual Vinyl's handling is ace as well (like the DJ mag review. That JFB is no rookie on the decks, I tell you). I'll guess I have to take Serato for a spin to see what the fuzz is all about, but it seems to lack some of the features i like in VDJ.
Posté Mon 13 Aug 07 @ 9:33 pm
bagpuss
The DJ mag review was done using the new Vinyls, Have any of you guys tried the new vinyls?
Posté Mon 13 Aug 07 @ 10:41 pm
sjursjur
Yup, of course. I own Virtual Vinyl package... Unfortunately the ones in the package were warped, and pretty much unusable.
Posté Mon 13 Aug 07 @ 10:48 pm
bagpuss
You didn't get the product replaced?
Posté Mon 13 Aug 07 @ 10:57 pm
sjursjur
I'm on it at the moment. It's kind of a hassle though, since the webstore doesn't have replacement vinyl in stock... anyway, I made a seperate thread for that as well... My curiosity on the compatibility of serato vinyls is becasue they are so much easier to obtain.
Posté Tue 14 Aug 07 @ 12:03 am
djchicago
soon sam ash will be selling numark vinyl or you can buy from audiolines.com (main store is here in chicago.
Posté Tue 14 Aug 07 @ 6:46 am
blazemonger
sjursjur wrote :
The point I always try to make is that while VDJ is way more feature rich then Serato the latter does the things it does do much, much better then VDJ..
I'll guess I have to take Serato for a spin to see what the fuzz is all about, but it seems to lack some of the features i like in VDJ.
So if your requirements are met by Serato IMO that would be the preferable weapon of choice.
Posté Tue 14 Aug 07 @ 12:17 pm