tunic
Hi guys,
I've been reading everything with great interest over the past couple of months regarding people's views, issues and experience with VDJ etc.
I bought some time ago the Hercules DJ console and whilst it is, I got quite frustrated by some of its limitations quite quickly. Its great for simple mixes and what have you but I found the digital nature of the mixing and the poor cross-fade curve to sound a bit naff. (note: I am new to DJing but have been an ardent clubber for quite a few years), I started off mixing trance so the mixer issues weren't to much of a problem because I just left the cross fader in the middle and simply used the channel volumes and EQs to mix.
I then progressed to buying and external 3 channel mixer which is great because it feels a lot more responsive and although trickier to get sounding good, I think has better EQ seperation and obviously there is no noticable latency. (also for the record, very soon after I bought the Herc I upgraded to VDJ2.x).
Anyway, I now at that point that I want to move things along further. I have plenty of room for improving my DJ skills with the current tool set but I think I want a more hands on feel because things like the unresponsiveness of the start buttons on the Herc are a pain in the behind and sort of ruin the fun a little.
So then it now comes down to the whole TCV vs XP10 blah blah issue. I have never DJ'ed on viynl, and only very badly on CD decks up until now (not too good at BPM matching at the moment!), however, idealy I'd like to master both (and learn another language, learn to play the piano, run the London Marathon etc. etc.). Alas, I keep toying between the two.
Im kinda settled on the XP10s because I am a compsci bod at heart and I like technology to progress and I like the thought perhaps of being more creative by using digital controllers. However, and here is the big *but* - a lot of people seem to have issues with the build quality (if nothing else, some of you say they look cheap and the pitch slider is too light). How does the XP10 compare to pro-CDJ's like the big ol'Pioneers? I know DJMag said the XP10 touch plate was even better then the Pioneer, but what is your experience of one compared to the other? I know when the XP10s first were available there was a lot of hype on this board but now that surely has settled down, what are people's honest thoughts about using them in a party/club situation?
Also, does anyone know of any new controllers coming out? Is it perhaps worth waiting at the moment?
At the end of the day I'd mainly want a controller for the hands on feel minus any mixer stuff because of the external mixer setup.
Finally (phew!) with the XP10s - can these be uses as the inputs for TCV as they are a "good quality" soundcard?
Many thanks. Sorry for the essay. I've kinda read as many posts on this subject as possible and I know the usual answer is "it depends on what you've already got", and "depends on how much scratching you want to do". So therefore I'm mainly hoping to find out a bit about the XP10s in the real world I guess.
I've been reading everything with great interest over the past couple of months regarding people's views, issues and experience with VDJ etc.
I bought some time ago the Hercules DJ console and whilst it is, I got quite frustrated by some of its limitations quite quickly. Its great for simple mixes and what have you but I found the digital nature of the mixing and the poor cross-fade curve to sound a bit naff. (note: I am new to DJing but have been an ardent clubber for quite a few years), I started off mixing trance so the mixer issues weren't to much of a problem because I just left the cross fader in the middle and simply used the channel volumes and EQs to mix.
I then progressed to buying and external 3 channel mixer which is great because it feels a lot more responsive and although trickier to get sounding good, I think has better EQ seperation and obviously there is no noticable latency. (also for the record, very soon after I bought the Herc I upgraded to VDJ2.x).
Anyway, I now at that point that I want to move things along further. I have plenty of room for improving my DJ skills with the current tool set but I think I want a more hands on feel because things like the unresponsiveness of the start buttons on the Herc are a pain in the behind and sort of ruin the fun a little.
So then it now comes down to the whole TCV vs XP10 blah blah issue. I have never DJ'ed on viynl, and only very badly on CD decks up until now (not too good at BPM matching at the moment!), however, idealy I'd like to master both (and learn another language, learn to play the piano, run the London Marathon etc. etc.). Alas, I keep toying between the two.
Im kinda settled on the XP10s because I am a compsci bod at heart and I like technology to progress and I like the thought perhaps of being more creative by using digital controllers. However, and here is the big *but* - a lot of people seem to have issues with the build quality (if nothing else, some of you say they look cheap and the pitch slider is too light). How does the XP10 compare to pro-CDJ's like the big ol'Pioneers? I know DJMag said the XP10 touch plate was even better then the Pioneer, but what is your experience of one compared to the other? I know when the XP10s first were available there was a lot of hype on this board but now that surely has settled down, what are people's honest thoughts about using them in a party/club situation?
Also, does anyone know of any new controllers coming out? Is it perhaps worth waiting at the moment?
At the end of the day I'd mainly want a controller for the hands on feel minus any mixer stuff because of the external mixer setup.
Finally (phew!) with the XP10s - can these be uses as the inputs for TCV as they are a "good quality" soundcard?
Many thanks. Sorry for the essay. I've kinda read as many posts on this subject as possible and I know the usual answer is "it depends on what you've already got", and "depends on how much scratching you want to do". So therefore I'm mainly hoping to find out a bit about the XP10s in the real world I guess.
Posté Wed 19 Jan 05 @ 2:36 pm
anewsome
Well I got my XP10 a couple of days ago. I'm still trying to get used to them, so I was trying to hold off on posting about my experience with them until I had a chance to get a little more used to them. I also have a Hercules DJ Console and I got to be pretty damn good with that thing before I realized it really is a toy (crappy buttons, cramped space, crossfader going bad after 5 hours of use, etc). Since HDJC was such a toy and scratching with it was such a joke, I decided to upgrade to the XP10.
I kinda wish I would waited for the Atomix XP10 right off the bat. I probably could do without the a$$ ugly virtual dj logo on the Atomix XP10, but I would like my buttons to be labled with VDJ functions instead of memorizing what these buttons do on the EKS XP10.
I can put one thing to rest for certain though, and that's the position that Atomix has taken with some mysteriously missing posts on this forum, where they stated that the EKS XP10 will not work with VDJ. This is garbage. They work fine, or at least seem to.
I do agree that it seems to be a little harder to get my crossfader set just right on my external Denon mixer to make my mixes sound good. The HDJC doesn't have any of these settings to mess with. My Denon has slope setting for each channel, revers buttons on each channel and then a slope setting for the crossfader itself. Hard to get it just right - but I think I like the flexibility!
I had also upgraded to VDJ 2.X with my HDJC, which made it a little nicer. But still I felt like I could do a little better.
After I ordered my XP10, I went down to the local Guitar Center store to check out some pro CD players. They had a little room setup which had some Numark turntables, Technics turntables and a mixer. they also had a pro CD setup with one side there was a Pioneer CDJ and the other side was a Technics CD player - the one with the huge active platter. They also had a Denon setup but it wasn't hooked to the mixer and piped in over the overhead speakers.
Once I played with the Technics player, I started to get the feeling I would like this better than the XP10 for controlling VDJ - but I hadn't touched my XP10s at all yet. Well now I have, and I can honestly say I probably would have preferred the Technics active platter CD player with Timecode CD rather than XP10. Now this is just my feeling after 2 days of working with the XP10. I just can't seem to get the hang of it. Maybe once I get more used to the XP10 I will love them. Still trying to get to that point. Mostly I am having trouble getting used to the magic plate on top. In my practice mix sessions, I've touched the magic plate on top a few times during my mix and that causes the music to stop and throws off your beat match. The Pioneer CDJ players probably suffer the same thing but not as bad since the platter and outer ring are HUGE. The XP10 is a tiny little thing. I think I can cover the entire unit with one hand.
The build quality on the XP10 is nothing, and I mean nothing like a pro CD player. Hold one of these Denon or Technics pro players in your hand and then pickup an XP10. You'll feel a world of difference. That Denon player feels like a brick - literally. The pitch slider on the XP10 does flow too freely as some have stated. EKS told me to push down on it to give the felt under the slider a little more tension but that doesn't seem to help at all. More annoying than the slider not having enough tension is that the slider has no center indent and no marker on the XP10 itself as to where the center is. I guess you can eyeball it close enough but then there's the other problem with the slider. I'm still trying to figure out how to sync up the on-screen slider with the physical slider on the XP10. If on my last song I had the slider slid one direction very far and then I load up a new song, the slider on the screen is on the middle. If I try to speed up the song a bit, I'm already maxed out in slider movement. I have to move the physical slider somewhere toward the middle (guessing of course), then reset the onscreen slider so that it is back to the middle. Now I have full pitch capability again. This is a pain though when you are mixing fast - you don't have time for this. In this regard, I much prefer the HDJC rotary encoders that are used for controlling picth. A rotary encoder is always in the right position!
DJ Mag might have said the XP10 touch plate was better but I don't buy it. Maybe I am still getting used to the plate but I kept "losing my spot" in the scratch with the XP10 touch plate. Not as easy as keeping your spot on a big 12 inch piece of vinyl, that's for sure.
I don't know of any controllers that are gonna be better than the XP10. I still think they are the best mp3 controllers on the planet but I seriously think I would be able to scratch better with TCV or Denon / Technics pro CD player and TCCD. When I was at the Guitar Center, I was sratching like a champ after 45 seconds of using the player for the first time in my life. I still am not there with the XP10 and I've had them for 2 days!
As far as the XP10 being used with timecode, this is not possible. You need to use CD players or turntables with timecode.
Hope this helps.
I kinda wish I would waited for the Atomix XP10 right off the bat. I probably could do without the a$$ ugly virtual dj logo on the Atomix XP10, but I would like my buttons to be labled with VDJ functions instead of memorizing what these buttons do on the EKS XP10.
I can put one thing to rest for certain though, and that's the position that Atomix has taken with some mysteriously missing posts on this forum, where they stated that the EKS XP10 will not work with VDJ. This is garbage. They work fine, or at least seem to.
I do agree that it seems to be a little harder to get my crossfader set just right on my external Denon mixer to make my mixes sound good. The HDJC doesn't have any of these settings to mess with. My Denon has slope setting for each channel, revers buttons on each channel and then a slope setting for the crossfader itself. Hard to get it just right - but I think I like the flexibility!
I had also upgraded to VDJ 2.X with my HDJC, which made it a little nicer. But still I felt like I could do a little better.
After I ordered my XP10, I went down to the local Guitar Center store to check out some pro CD players. They had a little room setup which had some Numark turntables, Technics turntables and a mixer. they also had a pro CD setup with one side there was a Pioneer CDJ and the other side was a Technics CD player - the one with the huge active platter. They also had a Denon setup but it wasn't hooked to the mixer and piped in over the overhead speakers.
Once I played with the Technics player, I started to get the feeling I would like this better than the XP10 for controlling VDJ - but I hadn't touched my XP10s at all yet. Well now I have, and I can honestly say I probably would have preferred the Technics active platter CD player with Timecode CD rather than XP10. Now this is just my feeling after 2 days of working with the XP10. I just can't seem to get the hang of it. Maybe once I get more used to the XP10 I will love them. Still trying to get to that point. Mostly I am having trouble getting used to the magic plate on top. In my practice mix sessions, I've touched the magic plate on top a few times during my mix and that causes the music to stop and throws off your beat match. The Pioneer CDJ players probably suffer the same thing but not as bad since the platter and outer ring are HUGE. The XP10 is a tiny little thing. I think I can cover the entire unit with one hand.
The build quality on the XP10 is nothing, and I mean nothing like a pro CD player. Hold one of these Denon or Technics pro players in your hand and then pickup an XP10. You'll feel a world of difference. That Denon player feels like a brick - literally. The pitch slider on the XP10 does flow too freely as some have stated. EKS told me to push down on it to give the felt under the slider a little more tension but that doesn't seem to help at all. More annoying than the slider not having enough tension is that the slider has no center indent and no marker on the XP10 itself as to where the center is. I guess you can eyeball it close enough but then there's the other problem with the slider. I'm still trying to figure out how to sync up the on-screen slider with the physical slider on the XP10. If on my last song I had the slider slid one direction very far and then I load up a new song, the slider on the screen is on the middle. If I try to speed up the song a bit, I'm already maxed out in slider movement. I have to move the physical slider somewhere toward the middle (guessing of course), then reset the onscreen slider so that it is back to the middle. Now I have full pitch capability again. This is a pain though when you are mixing fast - you don't have time for this. In this regard, I much prefer the HDJC rotary encoders that are used for controlling picth. A rotary encoder is always in the right position!
DJ Mag might have said the XP10 touch plate was better but I don't buy it. Maybe I am still getting used to the plate but I kept "losing my spot" in the scratch with the XP10 touch plate. Not as easy as keeping your spot on a big 12 inch piece of vinyl, that's for sure.
I don't know of any controllers that are gonna be better than the XP10. I still think they are the best mp3 controllers on the planet but I seriously think I would be able to scratch better with TCV or Denon / Technics pro CD player and TCCD. When I was at the Guitar Center, I was sratching like a champ after 45 seconds of using the player for the first time in my life. I still am not there with the XP10 and I've had them for 2 days!
As far as the XP10 being used with timecode, this is not possible. You need to use CD players or turntables with timecode.
Hope this helps.
Posté Wed 19 Jan 05 @ 7:15 pm
tunic
I have been looking into the XP10 thing a bit more (when I should have been working ;o)
According to the eks.fi site there are only 3 connectors - 2 X RCA and one USB. So there answer there obviously is no, they can't be used for TCV.
Next question: are all of the buttons mappable or are they fixed in function?
Secondly, are there any plans to allow the VDJ-PRO version to use other software (not that I want to, but choices are always good)? I notice that despite the stated £100 price difference, the reality is it might be as low as $30 depending on where you buy from (looking at the distributers on the eks site).
Finanlly, the new VDJPro XP10s exactly the same as the first ones that have come out or have there been improvements, such as a firmer pitch slider?
Final finally - how does the mp3 playback / ASIO support etc. compare between XP10s, Hercules and say the Maya44 device?
(basically working out where to spend my next hard earned money)
Do I ask to0 many questions / you're all bored of answering because they are too similar to previous questions? ;o) I'm not convinced I've found the answers yet.
Posté Wed 19 Jan 05 @ 7:18 pm
tunic
Thanks anewsome - great response. It was just the kind of thing I was looking for and probably matched my instinct thus far.
I'm thinking that the XP10 is probably on the right lines but not quite there at the moment. I had a little looksie at the Denon DN1000 today and they look quite smart - smallish, and even play mp3s @ 320kbps. Of course, they are also very expensive versus XP10s.
My question re: the XP10 and TCV was to do with inputs on the devices, as in did they have a suitable line-in, which of course I now know they don't.
My issue personally with getting TCV/decks right now is space! My house is quite small and I think I'm pushing my luck with my girlfriend for leaving the laptop, Herc and Gemini mixer setup and wired up in the living room. I'm also in the process of saving up for our wedding and our first house which is why I am being particuarly careful to buy the right thing at the moment.
I'm thinking that the XP10 is probably on the right lines but not quite there at the moment. I had a little looksie at the Denon DN1000 today and they look quite smart - smallish, and even play mp3s @ 320kbps. Of course, they are also very expensive versus XP10s.
My question re: the XP10 and TCV was to do with inputs on the devices, as in did they have a suitable line-in, which of course I now know they don't.
My issue personally with getting TCV/decks right now is space! My house is quite small and I think I'm pushing my luck with my girlfriend for leaving the laptop, Herc and Gemini mixer setup and wired up in the living room. I'm also in the process of saving up for our wedding and our first house which is why I am being particuarly careful to buy the right thing at the moment.
Posté Wed 19 Jan 05 @ 7:30 pm
anewsome
Do what I did. Get rid of the girlfriend and buy all the gear you want. Just kidding. Congrats on your wedding plans.
Posté Wed 19 Jan 05 @ 8:00 pm
anewsome
Oh and as far as XP10 being less money than the Denon players, I payed about $1206 for my pair of XP10s from EKS. You can EASILY get a couple of Denon / Pioneer / Technics players for that much money. If you have a Guitar Center near where you live, they usually have pre-owned gear. Even if you don't plan to buy them, I would suggest you at least take a trip to Guitar Center and play with the decks. You'll really get a feel for them. Too bad there is no store that has XP10 setup so you can go check them out. It really would have helped me with my decision.
Oh and your other question about mapping the buttons on EKS XP10, they are FULLY mappable. You can assign any button to do anything. Only problem is you'd better have a good memory or one of those little Brother P-touch label machines since the buttons will not do what they say.
On another note, remember to get a DJ lite for your setup when you use the XP10 at a performance. The buttons are not lighted like the HDJC.
I have Niles audio touchpads in every room in my house for my home audio system and these are really cool because they give you like 50 buttons with each touch pad and you just pull the touch pad apart before installing it and insert the buttons that match what your system does. This would kick ass if the XP10 were like this too. Pop a couple of screws, remove the top plate and install the buttons you like. How nice would that be?
Oh and your other question about mapping the buttons on EKS XP10, they are FULLY mappable. You can assign any button to do anything. Only problem is you'd better have a good memory or one of those little Brother P-touch label machines since the buttons will not do what they say.
On another note, remember to get a DJ lite for your setup when you use the XP10 at a performance. The buttons are not lighted like the HDJC.
I have Niles audio touchpads in every room in my house for my home audio system and these are really cool because they give you like 50 buttons with each touch pad and you just pull the touch pad apart before installing it and insert the buttons that match what your system does. This would kick ass if the XP10 were like this too. Pop a couple of screws, remove the top plate and install the buttons you like. How nice would that be?
Posté Wed 19 Jan 05 @ 8:09 pm
DJ Andre Landry
Your girlfriensd is lucky 20 years ago we needed to have the whole living room.....
Posté Wed 19 Jan 05 @ 8:13 pm
Bargler
Hmmm. Sorry to hear you aren't too happy with the XP10's, anewsome. I'm surprised. Are you a previous vinyl user, by chance? I am not, and thus I haven't had to unlearn any scratching habits to adopt them to the XP10.
I was just curious as I've had no problems at all using my XP10 wheels to scratch. I'm very impressed by the wheel resolution, though I will agree that the small diameter of the wheels makes them much less forgiving than a big vinyl platter. There is much less room for error.
I was just curious as I've had no problems at all using my XP10 wheels to scratch. I'm very impressed by the wheel resolution, though I will agree that the small diameter of the wheels makes them much less forgiving than a big vinyl platter. There is much less room for error.
Posté Wed 19 Jan 05 @ 8:45 pm
Bargler
About build quality...
I agree the pitch slider on the XP10's is weak. Very weak. It really gives the whole device a much cheaper feel than it deserves. I think they would be getting much more recognition if they'd have replaced the buttons with soft rubber, and given us a quality pitch slider. I, too, loved the HDJC's rotary dial. Luckily for me, my mix style doesn't require too much work on the pitch slider.Those changes would have given the device much more credibility to the established DJ crowd.
However, the XP10's are built very well using high quality electrical components and every internal picture of an XP10 I have seen looks like all the soldering and such is top notch. You can't compare them (based on weight) to another device that has a motor and metal casing. By that comparison, my $60 DVD player from Walmart is higher build quality than my XP10s. ;)
I agree the pitch slider on the XP10's is weak. Very weak. It really gives the whole device a much cheaper feel than it deserves. I think they would be getting much more recognition if they'd have replaced the buttons with soft rubber, and given us a quality pitch slider. I, too, loved the HDJC's rotary dial. Luckily for me, my mix style doesn't require too much work on the pitch slider.Those changes would have given the device much more credibility to the established DJ crowd.
However, the XP10's are built very well using high quality electrical components and every internal picture of an XP10 I have seen looks like all the soldering and such is top notch. You can't compare them (based on weight) to another device that has a motor and metal casing. By that comparison, my $60 DVD player from Walmart is higher build quality than my XP10s. ;)
Posté Wed 19 Jan 05 @ 9:00 pm
idj4u
To anewsome: I don't own the XP10s, but I have a couple of ideas.
1. In the XP10 configuration screen, you can actually disable (or change the action) of that centre pad so it doesn't STOP when you press it. (Use the pause/stop button instead).
2. In VDJ config, change pitch reset to disabled. In my mind, this will stop the pitch problems you have with the XP10 fader when you load a new song. In theory, if the last song you were playing was pitched at 25% (for example), then when you load the next song it's also at 25%. This should be right where you left the XP10 pitch fader, regardless of what graphic fader on scren is doing...
3. As for CD players and TVC/TCCD vs XP10, you lose the ability to control other options such as effects and more creative looping etc if you use your Denon etc. In other words, you can't map your Numark, Denon, Pioneer CD player or your Technics 1200. With the XP10 (or DAC2) you can change any of the buttons to do any of the VDJ features, such as trigger a sample etc.
And lastly, I believe Tunic was asking - do the XP10 soundcards have LINE IN, so you can conenct your time coded CD player (denon, Pioneer etc) into the XP10....?
I'm still not sure if I should go wioth the XP10 or the DAC2, myself. If VDJ can change the settings to allow me to do time lapse mixing via time coded CD, I might stay with TCCD and use some Xkeys to activate other features like FX, samples, etc
Anyone know if you can simply open the XP10 and replace the fader component for a tighter one with a centre click?
1. In the XP10 configuration screen, you can actually disable (or change the action) of that centre pad so it doesn't STOP when you press it. (Use the pause/stop button instead).
2. In VDJ config, change pitch reset to disabled. In my mind, this will stop the pitch problems you have with the XP10 fader when you load a new song. In theory, if the last song you were playing was pitched at 25% (for example), then when you load the next song it's also at 25%. This should be right where you left the XP10 pitch fader, regardless of what graphic fader on scren is doing...
3. As for CD players and TVC/TCCD vs XP10, you lose the ability to control other options such as effects and more creative looping etc if you use your Denon etc. In other words, you can't map your Numark, Denon, Pioneer CD player or your Technics 1200. With the XP10 (or DAC2) you can change any of the buttons to do any of the VDJ features, such as trigger a sample etc.
And lastly, I believe Tunic was asking - do the XP10 soundcards have LINE IN, so you can conenct your time coded CD player (denon, Pioneer etc) into the XP10....?
I'm still not sure if I should go wioth the XP10 or the DAC2, myself. If VDJ can change the settings to allow me to do time lapse mixing via time coded CD, I might stay with TCCD and use some Xkeys to activate other features like FX, samples, etc
Anyone know if you can simply open the XP10 and replace the fader component for a tighter one with a centre click?
Posté Wed 19 Jan 05 @ 11:03 pm
anewsome
That's gonna be a big no on opening the XP10. They don't recommend it at all. I was considering trying to replace the buttons on my unit.
For anyone that thinks I'm unhappy with my XP10s you would be mistaken. I'm perfectly happy with them. My issue with the magic plate will go away over time as I get used to mixing with them.
DJ Andre Landry, yes I am a previous vinyl user but my last paying gig was a club in 1985. Yes you read that correctly. I did a couple of jobs around 1993 but I haven't seen or touched any vinyl since around then. I was never all that good at scratching vinyl either, but I was a helluva lot better at it than I am with these 4.5 inch wheels. I just think it takes practice that's all. I'll get good at it and then I'll put together the first "battle" showdown for XP10 DJ's like they do with those Technics battles :-)
My other issues can probably be fixed with a skin. I still have the same problem as I did with the Hercules, and that is that we need a CUE PROTECT feature. The cue button works like this: If you press the cue button while the song is playing, then the song moves to the CUE point. If you press the CUE button while the song is stopped, then the current position in the song is OVERWRITTEN. This is very bad behavoir in my opinion. When I load up a song and immediately hit the CUE button to get me to my spot, I don't get to my spot. I get my cue point overwritten with the point that is silient in the begining of the song. I have to remember to press play and then cue. Shouldn't have to press two buttons, but I guess this is my issue since I seem to be the only one posting about it.
I read that the Tascam skin does in fact employ a CUE PROTECT feature. I wonder how they do this because I would like to do that, but I don't like that skin (or any skin that does not have overlapping waveform windows).
I also need to figure out how to map some keys to:
a.) Go to a CUE point and loop [8,16] beats
b.) Re-loop or stutter I think it's called on some pro CD decks. This is a kickass feature of the pro CD decks. Just need to learn how to make VDJ do it. Holding down on the cue button does something similar but I am so terrified of wiping out my CUE points, I try to touch that button as little as possible.
c.) Loop in / Loop out , for songs that VDJ has bpm detected incorrectly.
d.) map a button do toggle off/on the magic plate on the fly,.. this would be a kickass, in fact the bison software does in fact have this mapped by default. it toggles between cd dj mode and vinyl mode. As for turning the plate off in the mapper, I tried this. Turning off the mapping of the plate (which is mapped to hold by default) does not make the wheel function as a regular shuttle style wheel if you touch the top of the plate. Removing the hold mapping of the plate does prevent the music from stopping when you touch the plate though.
Yeah I know, go into the mapper and figure it out. Yeah I get it. I've just never been too productive in there. It's quite confusing. Soon as I have a clear idea of exactly what I want each button to do, I'll go into the mapper and try to hammer it out.
And when talking about the XP10, you guys should all just be happy that this thread is still here.
For anyone that thinks I'm unhappy with my XP10s you would be mistaken. I'm perfectly happy with them. My issue with the magic plate will go away over time as I get used to mixing with them.
DJ Andre Landry, yes I am a previous vinyl user but my last paying gig was a club in 1985. Yes you read that correctly. I did a couple of jobs around 1993 but I haven't seen or touched any vinyl since around then. I was never all that good at scratching vinyl either, but I was a helluva lot better at it than I am with these 4.5 inch wheels. I just think it takes practice that's all. I'll get good at it and then I'll put together the first "battle" showdown for XP10 DJ's like they do with those Technics battles :-)
My other issues can probably be fixed with a skin. I still have the same problem as I did with the Hercules, and that is that we need a CUE PROTECT feature. The cue button works like this: If you press the cue button while the song is playing, then the song moves to the CUE point. If you press the CUE button while the song is stopped, then the current position in the song is OVERWRITTEN. This is very bad behavoir in my opinion. When I load up a song and immediately hit the CUE button to get me to my spot, I don't get to my spot. I get my cue point overwritten with the point that is silient in the begining of the song. I have to remember to press play and then cue. Shouldn't have to press two buttons, but I guess this is my issue since I seem to be the only one posting about it.
I read that the Tascam skin does in fact employ a CUE PROTECT feature. I wonder how they do this because I would like to do that, but I don't like that skin (or any skin that does not have overlapping waveform windows).
I also need to figure out how to map some keys to:
a.) Go to a CUE point and loop [8,16] beats
b.) Re-loop or stutter I think it's called on some pro CD decks. This is a kickass feature of the pro CD decks. Just need to learn how to make VDJ do it. Holding down on the cue button does something similar but I am so terrified of wiping out my CUE points, I try to touch that button as little as possible.
c.) Loop in / Loop out , for songs that VDJ has bpm detected incorrectly.
d.) map a button do toggle off/on the magic plate on the fly,.. this would be a kickass, in fact the bison software does in fact have this mapped by default. it toggles between cd dj mode and vinyl mode. As for turning the plate off in the mapper, I tried this. Turning off the mapping of the plate (which is mapped to hold by default) does not make the wheel function as a regular shuttle style wheel if you touch the top of the plate. Removing the hold mapping of the plate does prevent the music from stopping when you touch the plate though.
Yeah I know, go into the mapper and figure it out. Yeah I get it. I've just never been too productive in there. It's quite confusing. Soon as I have a clear idea of exactly what I want each button to do, I'll go into the mapper and try to hammer it out.
And when talking about the XP10, you guys should all just be happy that this thread is still here.
Posté Thu 20 Jan 05 @ 12:39 am
idj4u
The Mixstation skins also have a cue protect feature.
I'm sure there are people out there with better electronic skills that would be happy to replace the pitch fader on their own XP10 (and voiding the warranty at the same time).
I'm sure there are people out there with better electronic skills that would be happy to replace the pitch fader on their own XP10 (and voiding the warranty at the same time).
Posté Thu 20 Jan 05 @ 1:10 am
Rune (DJ-In-Norway)
@anewsome
thanx for a good thread about your opinions about your xp10 ;)
I can assure you that there has been NONE deleted posts about xp10's! Seriously... :) reason for some posts missing, is that Atomix moved to new server, and the backup they had to use where somewhat old... there are therefor a cpl of posts missing, in any subject :)
"..And when talking about the XP10, you guys should all just be happy that this thread is still here.."
No worries mate! ;) it will stay here, forever...
As many of the users here will state with me, this is the most open dj forum of them all, and there is a huge room for different opinions here ...
Only really stupid comments are deleted... Look for Wireless posts, he has been critical eariler to many things, and so have others.. ;) they are not sensored... :)
If your statement was true, why would we allow a lot of discussions here even about other dj software, letting users who thing other software is better, even have an opinion! ;) this is not the case on other dj forums... trust me;)
And I do believe you will learn to like the xp10's after a while. I have seen SEVERAL post like this, from new xp10 owners... it takes some time to get used to, but when you do, you will love them, I'm sure..;)
best of luck with them new xp10's...
thanx for a good thread about your opinions about your xp10 ;)
I can assure you that there has been NONE deleted posts about xp10's! Seriously... :) reason for some posts missing, is that Atomix moved to new server, and the backup they had to use where somewhat old... there are therefor a cpl of posts missing, in any subject :)
"..And when talking about the XP10, you guys should all just be happy that this thread is still here.."
No worries mate! ;) it will stay here, forever...
As many of the users here will state with me, this is the most open dj forum of them all, and there is a huge room for different opinions here ...
Only really stupid comments are deleted... Look for Wireless posts, he has been critical eariler to many things, and so have others.. ;) they are not sensored... :)
If your statement was true, why would we allow a lot of discussions here even about other dj software, letting users who thing other software is better, even have an opinion! ;) this is not the case on other dj forums... trust me;)
And I do believe you will learn to like the xp10's after a while. I have seen SEVERAL post like this, from new xp10 owners... it takes some time to get used to, but when you do, you will love them, I'm sure..;)
best of luck with them new xp10's...
Posté Thu 20 Jan 05 @ 1:36 pm
tunic
Thanks for the answers....
I am swaying towards an VJ-Pro now. What I now next interested to know is what is the main difference between using a single controller versus two? Especially if I am routing to an external mixer (will I still need to use my DJ Console as the secondary soundcard?).
Secondly, does the VirtualDJ sticker peel off? I quite like the idea of a metal plate. Is the plate still (as) sensitive with the sticker etc?
Also, please, how does the VJ-Pro/XP10 compare to the Maya 44 for sound output / ASIO support? Is it still better to have the sound running through a Maya 44?
Thanks
I am swaying towards an VJ-Pro now. What I now next interested to know is what is the main difference between using a single controller versus two? Especially if I am routing to an external mixer (will I still need to use my DJ Console as the secondary soundcard?).
Secondly, does the VirtualDJ sticker peel off? I quite like the idea of a metal plate. Is the plate still (as) sensitive with the sticker etc?
Also, please, how does the VJ-Pro/XP10 compare to the Maya 44 for sound output / ASIO support? Is it still better to have the sound running through a Maya 44?
Thanks
Posté Fri 21 Jan 05 @ 2:07 pm
Bargler
How many backups did you guys use, Norway? The XP10 threads criticizing Atomix and EKS for witholding (and providing conflicting) information disappeared at different times. I think you may have been fed a line by your boss, mate.
For the record, there still has been no clear statement from Atomix about good questions like:
What, exactly, are the true differences in the hardware?
Are there differences in the firmware between the 2 units beyond the fact that the VDJ-Pro will not work with any software other than VDJ?
Will the VDJ-Pro be able to flash to XP10 drivers and be used by other programs if the user wishes? Will the XP10 be able to flash the VDJ-Pro drivers if needed?
There were many other good questions brought up before the threads...ahem...were backed up. About the only thing we got...and I mean no offense...is Yan telling us that the XP10 does not work properly with VDJ (we all know this to be at best, incorrect), you telling us what you "think" it all means, and EKS saying they don't really want to comment on anything specific for legal reasons. When a bigwig like Yan comes out and tells you something like that and clams up when confronted on it, THEN the manufacturer states "legal reasons" for not replying to specific Atomix comments and posts, THEN the threads disappear, I think there is reason for a potential consumer to take a pause...both those deciding between the XP10s vs the VDJ-Pro as well as the current owners of XP10's considering purchasing VDJ.
If I give you a concise list of XP10 vs VDJ-Pro related questions, can you see that they are not backed up, but instead answered definitively by the dev team or senior staff?
Anyway, to the real point of the thread....
The difference between using one and using two, is just that really...with 2, you can manipulate both decks of VDJ at once. I find myself doing loops and effects on one deck, while at the same time cueing up the other. There are many things that wouldn't be possible without both controllers.
You will not need any soundcards at all for your PC if you want to run an XP10 or VDJPRO into your mixer. They have internal soundcards with RCA outs that run directly to the mixer.
I'm not sure about the VDJ "sticker" on the platter. Since the wheel's top works on conductivity, I had always assumed the logo was anodized onto the metal. I have XP10s without the sticker, not the VDJPRO sold here.
As for sound quality, I'm very pleased. There are reports of hums and such, but I've had no such problems with either of my XP10s. Not sure about Asio. I just plugged them in and took off. The work off the generic windows drivers that are more than likely already on your machine, and I find the controllers latency to be very nice. I have no problem dropping beats right on time by taking my finger off the platter.
I love them, and I'd recommend them to anybody willing to put down the the 300-400 euros (VDJ-Pro vs XP10 price) for a totally digital dj'ing kit. Spring for the second controller, though. Lots of more options to your mixing if you can work 2 controllers at the same time.
For the record, there still has been no clear statement from Atomix about good questions like:
What, exactly, are the true differences in the hardware?
Are there differences in the firmware between the 2 units beyond the fact that the VDJ-Pro will not work with any software other than VDJ?
Will the VDJ-Pro be able to flash to XP10 drivers and be used by other programs if the user wishes? Will the XP10 be able to flash the VDJ-Pro drivers if needed?
There were many other good questions brought up before the threads...ahem...were backed up. About the only thing we got...and I mean no offense...is Yan telling us that the XP10 does not work properly with VDJ (we all know this to be at best, incorrect), you telling us what you "think" it all means, and EKS saying they don't really want to comment on anything specific for legal reasons. When a bigwig like Yan comes out and tells you something like that and clams up when confronted on it, THEN the manufacturer states "legal reasons" for not replying to specific Atomix comments and posts, THEN the threads disappear, I think there is reason for a potential consumer to take a pause...both those deciding between the XP10s vs the VDJ-Pro as well as the current owners of XP10's considering purchasing VDJ.
If I give you a concise list of XP10 vs VDJ-Pro related questions, can you see that they are not backed up, but instead answered definitively by the dev team or senior staff?
Anyway, to the real point of the thread....
The difference between using one and using two, is just that really...with 2, you can manipulate both decks of VDJ at once. I find myself doing loops and effects on one deck, while at the same time cueing up the other. There are many things that wouldn't be possible without both controllers.
You will not need any soundcards at all for your PC if you want to run an XP10 or VDJPRO into your mixer. They have internal soundcards with RCA outs that run directly to the mixer.
I'm not sure about the VDJ "sticker" on the platter. Since the wheel's top works on conductivity, I had always assumed the logo was anodized onto the metal. I have XP10s without the sticker, not the VDJPRO sold here.
As for sound quality, I'm very pleased. There are reports of hums and such, but I've had no such problems with either of my XP10s. Not sure about Asio. I just plugged them in and took off. The work off the generic windows drivers that are more than likely already on your machine, and I find the controllers latency to be very nice. I have no problem dropping beats right on time by taking my finger off the platter.
I love them, and I'd recommend them to anybody willing to put down the the 300-400 euros (VDJ-Pro vs XP10 price) for a totally digital dj'ing kit. Spring for the second controller, though. Lots of more options to your mixing if you can work 2 controllers at the same time.
Posté Sat 22 Jan 05 @ 3:56 am
tunic
Thanks Bargler.
Makes sense about the two controllers though not totally convinced I'd have enough hands to be manipulating both at the same time to be setting loops on one whilst cueing the other (as I am assuming the switch between decks surely would be the same and physically moving between them). I guess what would be perfect is if there was a passive version of the XP10 which didn't include sound card (and cheaper) so could use the Maya44 or something which would give TCV options later on (or of course, a good compatible line in on the XP10). But you can't have everything.
I think you have made very valid points about the firmware though - can anyone from the VDJ team confirm this? Why also, should there be legal issues regarding the communication of compatibility between XP10 and VDJ-PRO - surely both parties should be batting for the same team if both companies are serious about their products. However, I understand that it is tricky in business because it is more likely to be a case of not wanting to tread on each other's toes rather than anything more sinister.
Makes sense about the two controllers though not totally convinced I'd have enough hands to be manipulating both at the same time to be setting loops on one whilst cueing the other (as I am assuming the switch between decks surely would be the same and physically moving between them). I guess what would be perfect is if there was a passive version of the XP10 which didn't include sound card (and cheaper) so could use the Maya44 or something which would give TCV options later on (or of course, a good compatible line in on the XP10). But you can't have everything.
I think you have made very valid points about the firmware though - can anyone from the VDJ team confirm this? Why also, should there be legal issues regarding the communication of compatibility between XP10 and VDJ-PRO - surely both parties should be batting for the same team if both companies are serious about their products. However, I understand that it is tricky in business because it is more likely to be a case of not wanting to tread on each other's toes rather than anything more sinister.
Posté Sat 22 Jan 05 @ 11:36 am
Yan-X
"...is Yan telling us that the XP10 does not work properly with VDJ (we all know this to be at best, incorrect)"
You are reposting a certain message that was true at the time I posted the message. XP10 firmware has changed at a given date and we only have started to support the newest firmware version explaining why the XP10 units were not compatible. As it is impossible for us to know the embedded firmware version within a specific unit, we have take the most secure decision available : Virtual DJ is not working with the Eks XP10 units. Thus nobody can blam us to have their eks XP10 not working with our software
"EKS saying they don't really want to comment on anything specific for legal reasons."
EKS is the product manufacturer. They can't comment or talk about an Atomix Productions post, or about a commercial related issue that our users might have with our company. On the other way, Atomix Productions will not answer to a post talking about the technical aspects of the XP10 as we are not the manufacturer. Eks and AP are working together but first of all we are two differents companies with differents jobs ! (I am not a DSP engineer. EKS engineers are.)
"The difference between using one and using two, is just that really...with 2, you can manipulate both decks of VDJ at once. I find myself doing loops and effects on one deck, while at the same time cueing up the other. There are many things that wouldn't be possible without both controllers.
You will not need any soundcards at all for your PC if you want to run an XP10 or VDJPRO into your mixer. They have internal soundcards with RCA outs that run directly to the mixer."
Strictly exact. Nothing to add.
"I'm not sure about the VDJ "sticker" on the platter."
I have both units versions. Started with the normal Xp10 for teting purposes and now with the VirtualDJ logo on the platter. I use these VDJ XP10 for almost one year and I have strictly no problem with it. They reacts as fast as the original version.
Hope this post will help you and show that I am not only a bigwip... ;) (what is a bigwip by the way ??????)
You are reposting a certain message that was true at the time I posted the message. XP10 firmware has changed at a given date and we only have started to support the newest firmware version explaining why the XP10 units were not compatible. As it is impossible for us to know the embedded firmware version within a specific unit, we have take the most secure decision available : Virtual DJ is not working with the Eks XP10 units. Thus nobody can blam us to have their eks XP10 not working with our software
"EKS saying they don't really want to comment on anything specific for legal reasons."
EKS is the product manufacturer. They can't comment or talk about an Atomix Productions post, or about a commercial related issue that our users might have with our company. On the other way, Atomix Productions will not answer to a post talking about the technical aspects of the XP10 as we are not the manufacturer. Eks and AP are working together but first of all we are two differents companies with differents jobs ! (I am not a DSP engineer. EKS engineers are.)
"The difference between using one and using two, is just that really...with 2, you can manipulate both decks of VDJ at once. I find myself doing loops and effects on one deck, while at the same time cueing up the other. There are many things that wouldn't be possible without both controllers.
You will not need any soundcards at all for your PC if you want to run an XP10 or VDJPRO into your mixer. They have internal soundcards with RCA outs that run directly to the mixer."
Strictly exact. Nothing to add.
"I'm not sure about the VDJ "sticker" on the platter."
I have both units versions. Started with the normal Xp10 for teting purposes and now with the VirtualDJ logo on the platter. I use these VDJ XP10 for almost one year and I have strictly no problem with it. They reacts as fast as the original version.
Hope this post will help you and show that I am not only a bigwip... ;) (what is a bigwip by the way ??????)
Posté Sat 22 Jan 05 @ 12:35 pm
tunic
Thanks Yan-X for the clarity on the issues.
By use of another soundcard I meant if I only had one VDJ-Pro/XP10 using an external mixer or wanted to also utilise TCV.
Also, do you know whether the units are flash upgradeable? If so, are the two flashes interchangable?
By virtue of the sticker it was more to do with the looks - the stickerless units look more professional - which is going to be important for trying to convince bar/club owners that you are a "proper" DJ. This will become a lot less of an issue when/if they become more ubiquitous and there is less explaining to do.
By use of another soundcard I meant if I only had one VDJ-Pro/XP10 using an external mixer or wanted to also utilise TCV.
Also, do you know whether the units are flash upgradeable? If so, are the two flashes interchangable?
By virtue of the sticker it was more to do with the looks - the stickerless units look more professional - which is going to be important for trying to convince bar/club owners that you are a "proper" DJ. This will become a lot less of an issue when/if they become more ubiquitous and there is less explaining to do.
Posté Sat 22 Jan 05 @ 2:55 pm
Bargler
Thanks, Yan.
Sorry about the American euphemism. =)
big·wig - A very important person.
Sorry about the American euphemism. =)
big·wig - A very important person.
Posté Sat 22 Jan 05 @ 6:29 pm
djbambi
it's no sticker, it's embedded in the plate, and I wouldn't try to cover it up since it might decrease touch-plate sensitivity. the only thing that might work, maybe, is a pretty opaque black permanent marker to fill in the text and have an all-black plate, and even then I'm not sure.
if only atomix had simply put the atomix "propeller" logo on it instead... because IMHO, in virtualDJ, the name of the product is really the only thing that sucks ass.
if only atomix had simply put the atomix "propeller" logo on it instead... because IMHO, in virtualDJ, the name of the product is really the only thing that sucks ass.
Posté Sat 22 Jan 05 @ 10:16 pm
