djchris73
KeyLock ON: No matter what position the Pitch Fader/Slider is in; the "Key" or "Tone" of the song remains the same as the original "Key" or "Tone" of the track, period. The same tone as what the producers recorded it in. The same key as you remember it from on the radio...
KeyLock OFF: Pitch Fader/Slider affects not only the tempo but the affects "Tone" or "Key", also.
The way it works now is way too convoluted...
Why?
Everybody is familiar with a popular song's key. So, you don't want to mess with that.
What we want to adjust is the tempo of the beat, not the key of of the track.
When we mix, we mix over the breaks. Usually just drums. There is no need to adjust the key of a track, for the most part...
This is how the "Key" adjust works on most CD players. The Key or Tone stays the same as how it was originally recorded, only the tempo changes...
KeyLock OFF: Pitch Fader/Slider affects not only the tempo but the affects "Tone" or "Key", also.
The way it works now is way too convoluted...
Why?
Everybody is familiar with a popular song's key. So, you don't want to mess with that.
What we want to adjust is the tempo of the beat, not the key of of the track.
When we mix, we mix over the breaks. Usually just drums. There is no need to adjust the key of a track, for the most part...
This is how the "Key" adjust works on most CD players. The Key or Tone stays the same as how it was originally recorded, only the tempo changes...
Posté Wed 24 Sep 08 @ 2:35 am
cstoll
The key lock works exactly the way you described it. So how is that convoluted?
Posté Wed 24 Sep 08 @ 1:11 pm
Matt0218
djchris73 wrote :
KeyLock ON: No matter what position the Pitch Fader/Slider is in; the "Key" or "Tone" of the song remains the same as the original "Key" or "Tone" of the track, period. The same tone as what the producers recorded it in. The same key as you remember it from on the radio...
KeyLock OFF: Pitch Fader/Slider affects not only the tempo but the affects "Tone" or "Key", also.
KeyLock OFF: Pitch Fader/Slider affects not only the tempo but the affects "Tone" or "Key", also.
as i explained in my post
http://www.virtualdj.com/forums/88244/Wishes_and_new_features/master_tempo(keylock)_while_nudging.html
it's not the pitch fader/slider
they work exactly like you explained
it's nudging the wheel/dials
same with timecode cds
haven't had a chance to try it with timecode vinyls
does it work with tc vinyls ???
anybody ?
Posté Wed 24 Sep 08 @ 2:22 pm
djchris73
cstoll wrote :
The key lock works exactly the way you described it. So how is that convoluted?
Sorry Chris, It doesn't work exactly like I described it. Close, but not quite. It even says so in the manual.
To really see or rather hear what I'm talking about set the pitch range to plus or minus 33%. This way you can really hear the difference.
With the Pitch slider dead on Zero, if you engage the KeyLock any tempo changes will not affect the key...
Now, disengage the KeyLock. Move the pitch fader all the way down. You'll hear it chipmunk. Engage the KeyLock. Move the pitch fader all the way up. What key is the song in now? It's at the same Chipmunky key!!
To get it back to normal, you got to set pitch fader to zero, disengage and re-engage KeyLock. And then it works like it's suppossed to.
If that's not convoluted, then it's seriously flawed!
Posté Wed 24 Sep 08 @ 7:31 pm
SBDJ
It's neither convoluted or seriously flawed, it's the way I prefer it infact. It's because it uses key_lock by default. It locks the key at whatever it currently is. This stops a massive key change when you enable it on the fly - say you are playing out at +6% with keylock off, then you enable keylock - with your method it would make a huge key jump.
Anyway you can then reset the key if needed easily by mapping something to perform "key reset".
If you want it to work in the manner you describe, try experimenting with master_tempo instead - from memory this works that way, although I'm not in a position to test.
Regards,
Scott
Anyway you can then reset the key if needed easily by mapping something to perform "key reset".
If you want it to work in the manner you describe, try experimenting with master_tempo instead - from memory this works that way, although I'm not in a position to test.
Regards,
Scott
Posté Thu 25 Sep 08 @ 4:56 am
djchris73
SBDJ wrote :
It's neither convoluted or seriously flawed, it's the way I prefer it infact.
To each his own, bro. We will just have to agree to disagree.
SBDJ wrote :
It's because it uses key_lock by default. It locks the key at whatever it currently is. This stops a massive key change when you enable it on the fly - say you are playing out at +6% with keylock off, then you enable keylock - with your method it would make a huge key jump.
Scott, "My method" is the way it works on all of the Denon and Pioneer CD players that I've ever used.
SBDJ wrote :
Anyway you can then reset the key if needed easily by mapping something to perform "key reset".
I'll look into that. Thanks.
SBDJ wrote :
If you want it to work in the manner you describe, try experimenting with master_tempo instead - from memory this works that way, although I'm not in a position to test.
Regards,
Scott
Regards,
Scott
Thanks. But Master Tempo doesn't affect KeyLock in that way. Master Tempo settings (Fast and Advanced) are used to determine how much CPU horsepower is used in accordance with how much Pitch Range you want to use.
Posté Thu 25 Sep 08 @ 6:05 pm
cstoll
VirtualDJ's KeyLock is designed to be a combination of Key change and Tempo (Pitch). 99% of the time you would always engage key lock when on +/- 0 change. However if you wish to adjust the key of a song you disengage the keylock, change the key with the pitch fader, lock-in (engage) the key lock, then change the tempo (pitch) to the desired speed.
Now, there are skins out there where people have put both - key and master tempo faders so you can change them independent of each other.
As for your statement about master tempo, you are crossing 2 different things. The master tempo settings you describe are the settings for adjusting the algorithm for use when using master tempo. What SBDJ is describing is that there still exists from the early days of VirtualDJ the Master Tempo pitch capability which is really "time stretch" like used in the Denon and Pioneer solutions.
Now, there are skins out there where people have put both - key and master tempo faders so you can change them independent of each other.
As for your statement about master tempo, you are crossing 2 different things. The master tempo settings you describe are the settings for adjusting the algorithm for use when using master tempo. What SBDJ is describing is that there still exists from the early days of VirtualDJ the Master Tempo pitch capability which is really "time stretch" like used in the Denon and Pioneer solutions.
Posté Thu 25 Sep 08 @ 9:23 pm
djchris73
cstoll wrote :
As for your statement about master tempo, you are crossing 2 different things.
The Manual states:
Master Tempo
The master tempo is the algorithm controls how VirtualDJ changes the pitch of the song without changing its tone ("KeyLock Feature").
The default "Fast" algorithm takes only a small percentage of the CPU power, and produces good results at pitchesin the range of -10% to +10%. For extreme pitching, the fast algorithm can produce some choppiness. If your computer is fast enough, this can be corrected by using the Advanced algorithm option. With the Advance option, raising the complexity or spatialization of the algorithm can quickly overflow the systems CPU's capabilities [sic]
I stated:
Master Tempo settings (Fast and Advanced) are used to determine how much CPU horsepower is used in accordance with how much Pitch Range you want to use.
I'm not crossing two different things. I paraphrased the manual!
cstoll wrote :
The master tempo settings you describe are the settings for adjusting the algorithm for use when using master tempo.
Ok. That's what I was trying to do.
SBDJ wrote :
If you want it to work in the manner you describe, try experimenting with master_tempo instead - from memory this works that way, although I'm not in a position to test.
Master Tempo does affect KeyLock, but not how Scott thinks that it does.
To get KeyLock to work how I feel it should work, can not be accomplished in the Master Tempo settings.
If you carefully read SBDJ's comment, Scott seems to be suggesting that maybe it can.
Posté Thu 25 Sep 08 @ 10:40 pm
erxon
Chris, it's just a matter of terminology.
When "keylock" was introduced, it was ment as an adition to "master tempo", that gives the
ability to lock at any pitch you are currently at, also a fader can be created to only manipualte
the pitch of the song, which helps those who do karaoke or want to mix everything harmonically.
So key lock is ment to lock on the current key, not song's key, there the (possible) confusion.
But I don't see why you cannot achieve what you are talking about with master tempo,
it does exactly the way you want key lock to work.
When "keylock" was introduced, it was ment as an adition to "master tempo", that gives the
ability to lock at any pitch you are currently at, also a fader can be created to only manipualte
the pitch of the song, which helps those who do karaoke or want to mix everything harmonically.
So key lock is ment to lock on the current key, not song's key, there the (possible) confusion.
But I don't see why you cannot achieve what you are talking about with master tempo,
it does exactly the way you want key lock to work.
Posté Fri 26 Sep 08 @ 2:40 am
SBDJ
djchris73 wrote :
Master Tempo does affect KeyLock, but not how Scott thinks that it does.
Are you sure about that? ;)
djchris73 wrote :
Thanks. But Master Tempo doesn't affect KeyLock in that way. Master Tempo settings (Fast and Advanced) are used to determine how much CPU horsepower is used in accordance with how much Pitch Range you want to use.
Now re-read what I said.
Shortcut function: master_tempo *not* the master tempo settings.
By default, most skins and mappings use the newer (and more practical IMHO) key_lock function. This is exactly the same as master_tempo, but locks the current key. It uses the master tempo engine, and master tempo settings. If you set up a keyboard/MIDI/skin shortcut for master_tempo instead of key_lock you will get what you want.
I have just tested this, and it does *exactly* what you require.
Posté Fri 26 Sep 08 @ 4:53 am
cstoll
What SBDJ just described was what I was talking about.
I do not explain the master_tempo action in the manual. I only explain what settings can be set that effect the algorithm used when master tempo is active (which is part of the key lock feature as well)
In prior versions VirtualDJ only had Master Tempo. In version 4, we replaced the Master Tempo with Key Lock as it is a common Numark feature on their products. This was part of the Numark CUE branding. The key lock is better for the 'basic' DJ situations.
However, we didn't 'remove' Master Tempo (MT). It still exists, but just no longer common on the majority of skins. You can keep Key Lock deactivated and setup a keyboard shortcut to activate/deactivate Master Tempo. The action in the keyboard shortcuts list is called master_tempo.
I do not explain the master_tempo action in the manual. I only explain what settings can be set that effect the algorithm used when master tempo is active (which is part of the key lock feature as well)
In prior versions VirtualDJ only had Master Tempo. In version 4, we replaced the Master Tempo with Key Lock as it is a common Numark feature on their products. This was part of the Numark CUE branding. The key lock is better for the 'basic' DJ situations.
However, we didn't 'remove' Master Tempo (MT). It still exists, but just no longer common on the majority of skins. You can keep Key Lock deactivated and setup a keyboard shortcut to activate/deactivate Master Tempo. The action in the keyboard shortcuts list is called master_tempo.
Posté Fri 26 Sep 08 @ 3:22 pm
djchris73
Scott, Chris......you guys never said "shortcut". But ok. You guys win.
;)
I'll buy that. And I can work with it.
;)
exron wrote :
So key lock is ment to lock on the current key, not song's key, there the (possible) confusion.
I'll buy that. And I can work with it.
Posté Fri 26 Sep 08 @ 4:07 pm
SBDJ
At least this means your feature request is already implemented :)
Posté Sat 27 Sep 08 @ 6:15 am
djchris73
erxon wrote :
So key lock is ment to lock on the current key, not song's key, there the (possible) confusion.
There is no confusion, bro. If that's the way KeyLock is supposed to work, than fine. But this is the Wishes and New Features Forum. And I wish it were the way it is on DJ CD players...
I guess I shouldn't of titled my post "How KeyLock should work".
I should of titled it "How I wish KeyLock would work".
Posté Sun 28 Sep 08 @ 10:39 pm
erxon
Understand.
I think if you edit the skin, so that the button that says KEY LOCK would activate the master_tempo function,
you'd be good to go - happy with terminology and functionality :) Can do that for ya if you just point out the skin.
I think if you edit the skin, so that the button that says KEY LOCK would activate the master_tempo function,
you'd be good to go - happy with terminology and functionality :) Can do that for ya if you just point out the skin.
Posté Mon 29 Sep 08 @ 3:59 am
SBDJ
Chris uses the default VDJ skins, so if he edits the XML and changes...
To:
...and the same for channel two, he's all set - providing he's using the buttons on the skin. Same goes with a MIDI or keyboard shortcut of course.
If he's using a controller mapper, he might have to ask the author to make the option switchable for that.
<button action="key_lock" chan="1">
To:
<button action="master_tempo" chan="1">
...and the same for channel two, he's all set - providing he's using the buttons on the skin. Same goes with a MIDI or keyboard shortcut of course.
If he's using a controller mapper, he might have to ask the author to make the option switchable for that.
Posté Mon 29 Sep 08 @ 6:07 am