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Sujet Denon SC5000
The two versions of Denons SC5000 and the X1800 is not yet supported, right? In the pipeline?

Posté Thu 23 Aug 18 @ 5:54 pm
Personally I wouldn't touch them with a bargepole. The player firmware is missing basic functionality, a recent version introduced a cue bug weeks ago that hasn't been fixed yet and Engine Prime itself is horrific. Great hardware let down by poor software and the slowest coding team on the planet.

I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for Denon to do anything.

The first MCX8000 beta was released on 6th March and the beta was pulled 20th April. Since then there has been nothing. Disgraceful.

PhantomDeejay wrote :
Just to clear up a few things:

Since it's presentation to the media, SC5000 Prime was advertised that it WOULD be able to work as a controller at some time in the future. At initial launch, the unit did not offer PC software control ability (because Denon wanted to push it's stand alone playback abilities and the Engine software)
Only today, 2017/11/06 Serato announced support for SC5000 Prime.
However, there's not a single word from Denon as how SC5000 Prime works as a controller. Does it use MIDI ? Does it use HID ? Does it use another proprietary communication protocol ? No one knows (yet)
Without any technical information sheets and without the unit being able to communicate with a software it was impossible for us to do anything up to this point.
Even if we could determine the communication protocol (MIDI/HID/Other) it would be like seeking a needle in a haystack.

At present, we wait to see if Denon is going to release any technical details (such as a MIDI table) or not. Afterwards we'll decide how we're going to proceed now that the unit is finally able to communicate with at least one software.

Posté Thu 23 Aug 18 @ 5:58 pm
I'm waiting for news.
let's hope

is it possible to solicit someone?
my SC5000s are available for testing

Posté Sat 03 Nov 18 @ 7:21 pm
The only person you can solicit is Mr. Denon

Posté Sat 03 Nov 18 @ 7:27 pm
I don't understand why anyone would pay all that money for a standalone player, then want to use it as a MIDI controller.

Posté Sat 03 Nov 18 @ 8:01 pm
My point as well. But the the SC5000 doesn't search by comment or year so maybe a software interface is better :)

It also has a major bug cutting off HF after 18k that Denon are staying silent about.

Waste of money.

Posté Sat 03 Nov 18 @ 8:17 pm
18Khz? Who's complaining about that - bats?!

IMO there's not really much musical content at those kind of freqs anyway, even if you could hear that high.

I can't any more. It's my age, you know. :-)

Posté Sat 03 Nov 18 @ 8:55 pm
My son is 15 and complains CRTs kill him. Us old bastards need not apply

Posté Sat 03 Nov 18 @ 11:16 pm
I found the thread last night and had a quick read through. The phrase "mountain out of a molehill" comes to mind.

If anything, having the extreme highs rolling off is a good thing IMO. The 5000s are most likely to be played through a PA system, not a hifi. PA speakers use compression drivers for HF. Compression drivers have a reputation for sounding "tinny".

I have an EQ preset in a rack DSP for rolling off the highs on my RCF speakers for that very reason.

As some one mentioned in the thread too, it's not very likely anyone's going to come up to you at a gig and say "Excuse me. I just noticed that your audio system is down three decibels at sixteen kilohertz. I'm very disappointed." :-)

Posté Sun 04 Nov 18 @ 8:22 am
AdionPRO InfinityCTOMember since 2006
I don't think you usually want to recallibrate your sound system for every device you plug into it though.
Players and mixers should be flat, so that speakers, amplifiers and sound processors can be properly set up.
At their price point, there should also simply not be any need for such a shallow roll-off. (and from the graphs in that thread, the aliasing in higher frequencies still looks relatively high as well)

Posté Sun 04 Nov 18 @ 8:44 am
groovindj wrote :
I don't understand why anyone would pay all that money for a standalone player, then want to use it as a MIDI controller.

I do understand for several reasons, but my personal main reasons:

I use Pioneer CDJ-2000NXS2 en DJM-900NXS2 just because all artists have this requirement on the rider. So if there are more persons besides me that have to gig on my equipment that evening, it's not a problem.

It is just wonderfull to have a modular setup! If one device breaks down... I have a few others still up and running. If my Laptop breaks down... I still have an emergency USB stick in two players so I can immediately switch over to USB and restart or fix my laptop issue meanwhile...

But.... When I want to use Karaoke or video mixing or I need my mega music database (3Tb) and all the other stuff VDJ can bring me.... I have a bunch of overprised midi controllers :)

The Denon SC5000 is very interesting just because the pricing and dual decks per device AND the pads.... But indeed the software and firmware are not on the pro level yet. With the recent price drop (price is till end December 999 US dollar) it would be a no brainer if you compare the prices and functionality comparing other company's flagships.....
BUt... I haven't seen a rider yet that was asking Denon...

Posté Fri 09 Nov 18 @ 11:54 am
A lot of Denon fans are saying the price drop is a positive thing but I'm not so sure.

Sound to me like they're dumping stock before pulling them. Let's face it the change your rider campaign has fallen flat and both the players and software aren't close to the competition.

I have tried repeatedly to use Prime for my MCX8000 and its very much beta... and has been for s long time now.

Posté Fri 09 Nov 18 @ 12:44 pm
Any hope that vdj will soon support the Denon SC5000s?

Posté Thu 15 Nov 18 @ 1:54 pm
No, Denon haven't allowed it - the required technical information is not available.

Perhaps if enough people question Denon about this, something may be done. Perhaps not...

Posté Thu 15 Nov 18 @ 6:39 pm
alguien sabe si hay alguna novedad con respecto a virtual dj y denon sc5000 y x1800 prime?

Posté Sun 24 Feb 19 @ 8:27 pm
Well currently it's more like 12 to 16khz where the rather steep LP filter's 3dB down point is on the current firmware, depending on the format you're trying to play. Oddly enough, 24/96 is on the worst end of the spectrum. There's massive attenuation by the time you're at 18khz with any format. InMusic has said they plan on addressing this, but there's also some evidence of aggressive processing in general and some intermodulation and harmonic distortion noise, making it sound lossy, data compressed, and, oddly enough, kind of dynamically compressed, particularly through the SPDIFs. Hopefully that's all dealt with.

I agree the lack of support as a controller on it is weird considering Pioneers and all the old Denons can do it. Even the Geminis can. Engine Prime also currently lacks the ability to offload tracks from a computer over ethernet to the decks. InMusic has said they know we want it, so we'll see how long it takes to get it.
Engine Prime itself appears to be new software, not just some development of the old Engine 1.5. Either method (controller mode or track offloading) would be useful for building special sets with an entire library considering the limitations of on-screen search. I particularly like using VDJ's compatibility filters at home.

Posté Sun 24 Mar 19 @ 8:14 pm
These players should have more features than VDJ but they're not even close. And the speed of Denon's software development is abyzmal.

I really don't see where the Prime ecosystem is going at all.

Posté Sun 24 Mar 19 @ 8:37 pm
Agreed, but they're about to open up some new software dev site in New Zealand, so perhaps things will change. I'm a guy with nearly US$7000 worth of this stuff and I have to admit the sound quality is relatively poor right now unless we're comparing like the ability to keylock with the pitch at -20% where Prime does shine. Even the mixer I think lags behind the x1700, DB4, MP2015, and DJM900NXS2 in sound, and I can't use the players out live without worrying about the speed going nuts on them or some other quirk. There have also been some bizarre quality control issues. Jogs and pitch faders that aren't consistent resistant from unit to unit. Wrong plastic buttons. Lots of RMAs necessary and resulting B-stock units, etc. Numark's growing pains, essentially, and old kinks to iron out.

They are listening to users way more than Pioneer, though, and the hardware inside makes the competition look like toys. The DACs and multicore ARM processors certainly aren't the problem. I feel confident. I will say, though, the non-M touch version's jog bend is something I particularly hope they improve soon, and if they don’t I may start to lose faith in their ability to get stuff done in a timely matter or in their claims they're actually taking our suggestions to heart. I mean, they say they're listening, but for the most part they seem to be on a set track of feature improvements other than outright bugs and the high frequency roll off thing that we the mob sort of got a momentum going and forced their hand. The inability to set cues before the track was analyzed was a big snafu, but they've fixed that. I couldn't believe that was allowed through to official product release. The jog bend oversensitivity and asymmetry should be something very easy to improve that for some reason just hasn’t gotten done. Crossing my fingers.

As for where the Prime ecosystem is going, I assume they're aiming for the ability to install these units in a club and have someone show up with any drive, analyzed, unanalyzed, Traktor, Serato, Rekordbox, and/or (hopefully) VDJ database and meta data on that drive being quickly read and/or converted at-will so any DJ can show up and play. I also hope, though, they don't forget about us older DJs that don't want all that cheat garbage on screen. I'm hoping they'll give users the ability at some point to hide the moving waveforms and BPMs as I can do in VDJ and Traktor. Besides the compatibility filters, customization of on screen info is one of the biggest things I miss from software.

Posté Sun 24 Mar 19 @ 8:52 pm
Maybe I'm being cynical, but if they had any kind of product testing there's no way these players should have been released in the state they were, let alone Engine Prime.

The high end roll off is inexcusable, and the varying platter tensions are just poor workmanship and design.

Looks like the Prime 4 is half baked too. I really don't like them releasing incomplete products then adding features everybody wants at some point afterwards. That is what product development focus groups are for. They say they have such a thing in place but they never suggested horizontal waveforms on the Prime 4 or the ability to move files between drives. Really?

I love my MCX8000, the sound quality is excellent. VDJ saved the day that's for sure.

Posté Sun 24 Mar 19 @ 9:19 pm
While I prefer having the right design auteur rather than focus groups that design by committee, I think you're otherwise correct, but Numark's product testing was never particularly good, in my experience. I went through like 9 or 10 RMAs for the Axis 8 and PPD 9000 each! They also historically have had a nasty habit of discontinuing products and either bringing out new versions (red screen and without the MIDI, for instance) or outright discontinuing the line (like the mixer) right after we think we've finally found all the defects and oversights. Once the issues with switches needing to be replaced & soldered on the mixer and they learned a particular card kept popping out in shipment that needed hot glue, the PPD could be reliably made and shipped, but they canceled the design. Sad. Hopefully that's not what happens with Prime. They had issues with the motor on the Rane Twelve and seem to have taken care of people on those with paid RMAs back and forth.

So, as I said, these are growing pains and there seems to be at least some effort and change. Personally, I really wanted standalone players with no jog bend dead zone and with high pitch resolutions over 16%, and they've done that. I tried the Geminis and tried to help Gemini and those are still a stressful, largely-awful user experience in standalone mode after a few years... well, other than the Gemini jog bend. The MDJ now has the best jog bend in the industry. I don't see any reason why Prime can't improve except for perhaps some company culture and staffing shortages. So maybe I have more confidence in myself, what I want, and how things should be while not having a lot of historic evidence of InMusic's ability to necessarily pull it off, but I am hopeful, I've seen at least a little evidence they're trying to give buyers what they want, and I've certainly put my money where my mouth is... you gotta give me that :-)

Posté Sun 24 Mar 19 @ 9:36 pm