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Sujet: Dj Hero the new Guitar Hero?

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Have you heard about the new Game Console DJ Hero?

It is kinda a thing like Guitar Hero (where get a guitar ect and play songs) and pretend that you actually do something...


So now the kids are going to play DJ instead of Rock band?


I predict a bad future for the art of Djing..
 
Posté Sat 14 Nov 09 @ 9:37 pm
I think DJing is going to stay the same.

Seeing DJ Hero, it doesn't show that playing this game teaches you the art of DJing.

At the same time, there will probably be some people who will say: I WANNA BE A DJ (after buying DJ Hero).

Let's see what the future has in store.
 
The art of dj iing is great. It has come along way & top djs are like celebreties.
 
I had a go on it yesterday in a Dubai shopping center and have to say it was quite boring, if I was a kid even I think I would of prefer a couple of old decks and a 2 channel mixer plus two records.

 
I disagree with you guys on this one. Rock band didn't kill the live music scene, I doubt djhero will impact much here either
 
DJ Cyder wrote :
I disagree with you guys on this one. Rock band didn't kill the live music scene, I doubt djhero will impact much here either


2 major differences, (1) people still believe it takes skill and talent to play and instrument and you need to get several people together to form a band and (2) many people in the public already believe that djing takes no skill or talent and it is done solo so anybody can think they can do it.

I have already seen ads on craigslist for Djs who will do parties using the "new state of the art Guitar Hero Dj Gear".......pretty sad but very true.

Let's all be honest with ourselves and get over our egos, Djing as a true career or profession is a dying industry with all the advances in computer software, inexpensive and high quality gear, psychological based programming software, people's changing view of music having no value AND the ease at getting the gear and media DJ salaries and pay will continue to decline through the next decade or two until the vast majority of Djs will not be able to use it as their sole or main source of income. At best it will become a hobby that will produce a meager source of extra income.

The fact is there are millions of people out there that have the creativity and raw talent to be Djs but never had the income to purchase the equipment that is now so affordable to anyone, never had the income to procure the media which is now virtually free to anyone (even if it is illegal), never had the desire to practice and develop skills that are rapidly being easily reproduced now through software advances. Look at how a "basic professional" sound system 10 years ago would have cost upwards of $5000 and now can be done for around $2000. In the 80's 12" singles were $6 each ($10 for imports) and now the same music is $.99 if you pay for it and free on many download sites.

Look at how pay has deminished in just the last 10 years and how the thousands of "bedroom" Djs (many on this forum) take many jobs that used to go exclusively to professionals becaue clients, managers and owners don't know, don't care or don't value the talent level difference between a true professional and an amatuer. 10 years ago a club gig at $400-$500 a night in a resonable sized city was common, now even Vegas has dropped to around $300 for most casino gigs and $100-$150 in most other cities is the norm. I don't know about you but even if I worked 5 nights a week at todays cost of living it is almost impossbile to survive at $500-750 per week.

It used to be only the small clubs and neigborhood bars that had Djs that worked for free to get their start, now major clubs in major markets have Djs working for free just so they can say they work there, and as the list of "top name" djs waiting to play there grows everyday the owners take the attitude of "why should I pay when everyone is willing to play here for free". Once the other owners find out the top clubs aren't paying then they don't think they have to either and it becomes an ever decreasing spiral as the masses of Djs continue to accept inferior pay offers just to get the gig.

Trust me this post is not meant to demean anyone's talent or skills nor is it meant to demean the up and coming or bedroom DJs. We all started somewhere.....this is about where we are all going. I don't have a solution as a Dj union would never happen because of the shear number of amatuers and fledjelings who are vying for jobs and the cheap owners who would never respect or adhere to a union. The public would never abide by or pay attention to a "license or permit" and you could never get any laws passed to enforce either.

Mostly I am just being philosophical and pointing out the reality that those talents and skills we hold so dear today will in the next 10-20 years not be judged as anything people will be willing to pay for. It will be harder and harder to watch this wonderful profession be relegated to a hobby for all the young generation coming up. I am just glad I was able to see enough of the "heyday" when this was a true career and I could make enough money so when I finally do retire I can enjoy a real hobby building my model train layout, a true hobby I chose and not a career forced ugainst my will to relegate to hobby status while depending on some 9 to 5 job to survive.
 
dj-e-lectric wrote :
DJ Cyder wrote :
I disagree with you guys on this one. Rock band didn't kill the live music scene, I doubt djhero will impact much here either


2 major differences, (1) people still believe it takes skill and talent to play and instrument and you need to get several people together to form a band and (2) many people in the public already believe that djing takes no skill or talent and it is done solo so anybody can think they can do it.

I have already seen ads on craigslist for Djs who will do parties using the "new state of the art Guitar Hero Dj Gear".......pretty sad but very true.

Let's all be honest with ourselves and get over our egos, Djing as a true career or profession is a dying industry with all the advances in computer software, inexpensive and high quality gear, psychological based programming software, people's changing view of music having no value AND the ease at getting the gear and media DJ salaries and pay will continue to decline through the next decade or two until the vast majority of Djs will not be able to use it as their sole or main source of income. At best it will become a hobby that will produce a meager source of extra income.

The fact is there are millions of people out there that have the creativity and raw talent to be Djs but never had the income to purchase the equipment that is now so affordable to anyone, never had the income to procure the media which is now virtually free to anyone (even if it is illegal), never had the desire to practice and develop skills that are rapidly being easily reproduced now through software advances. Look at how a "basic professional" sound system 10 years ago would have cost upwards of $5000 and now can be done for around $2000. In the 80's 12" singles were $6 each ($10 for imports) and now the same music is $.99 if you pay for it and free on many download sites.

Look at how pay has deminished in just the last 10 years and how the thousands of "bedroom" Djs (many on this forum) take many jobs that used to go exclusively to professionals becaue clients, managers and owners don't know, don't care or don't value the talent level difference between a true professional and an amatuer. 10 years ago a club gig at $400-$500 a night in a resonable sized city was common, now even Vegas has dropped to around $300 for most casino gigs and $100-$150 in most other cities is the norm. I don't know about you but even if I worked 5 nights a week at todays cost of living it is almost impossbile to survive at $500-750 per week.

It used to be only the small clubs and neigborhood bars that had Djs that worked for free to get their start, now major clubs in major markets have Djs working for free just so they can say they work there, and as the list of "top name" djs waiting to play there grows everyday the owners take the attitude of "why should I pay when everyone is willing to play here for free". Once the other owners find out the top clubs aren't paying then they don't think they have to either and it becomes an ever decreasing spiral as the masses of Djs continue to accept inferior pay offers just to get the gig.

Trust me this post is not meant to demean anyone's talent or skills nor is it meant to demean the up and coming or bedroom DJs. We all started somewhere.....this is about where we are all going. I don't have a solution as a Dj union would never happen because of the shear number of amatuers and fledjelings who are vying for jobs and the cheap owners who would never respect or adhere to a union. The public would never abide by or pay attention to a "license or permit" and you could never get any laws passed to enforce either.

Mostly I am just being philosophical and pointing out the reality that those talents and skills we hold so dear today will in the next 10-20 years not be judged as anything people will be willing to pay for. It will be harder and harder to watch this wonderful profession be relegated to a hobby for all the young generation coming up. I am just glad I was able to see enough of the "heyday" when this was a true career and I could make enough money so when I finally do retire I can enjoy a real hobby building my model train layout, a true hobby I chose and not a career forced ugainst my will to relegate to hobby status while depending on some 9 to 5 job to survive.


I think there will be many more DJs out there and it will become increasingly easier to become a DJ, and trust me, I've seen the market become saturated with amateur DJs, but I'm not really worried about it. There is still a place for 'real' DJs who know what they're doing. There are still some people willing to pay for a good DJ with experience, DJs who know what to play, when to play it and how to play it, and they aren't just a warm body behind the decks. We as DJs have the responsibility to educate people on the difference between a fly-by-night noob, and an experienced and professional DJ.

When my demand as a DJ diminishes it will be because I've past my expiry date, not because of my fee. If you're a good DJ, the club owner will recognize it and pay you what you deserve, and if he gives you the boot because some noob will do it for less then you, you weren't that good of a DJ to begin with.
 
Your taking about the entire market of djing changing. What does that have to do with DJ hero? Does a F1 racing game make you a F1 driver? Its the same thing. The fact that there is a game makes the real guys even more legit. Who remembers the dm2?
 
DJ-e-lectric, you are right on the money about the demise of the professional DJ. However, Cyder is also correct that this game will not have that great an impact. Today's DJ will not have a 41 year career like I have enjoyed. They are 1 in a million. I remember being 1 of 2 in the state of NJ. I know I am a dying breed, that's why I now own a salon & spa. However, I am still doing OK, as October was my best month, for mobile gigs. I've done 9 mobile gigs in the last 7 weekends, and still do every Thurs nite at the club. Today's club owners are playing a big part, because they are short sighted. And yes, you can be great, and be replaced by a free DJ, because of the short sighted owner. Look around and take note. I just visited the club that I worked at for over 20 years, and the owner tells me he's off by over 20% from last year. Typically, GO-GO clubs do OK during recessions. Yet he pays no attention to the many complaints from dancers, bartenders, or customers about the poor quality of DJ's. While I was there, the DJ was sitting on a bar stool in the booth, (I'm sorry, I'm from the old school where the DJ never sits, unless he's missing a leg or two), playing a mixed CD, from Webster Hall. I knew the 8 customers there, white, 45 and up. They did not want to hear 80 minutes of 132bpm club music. The dancers and bartenders hear it so much, they know what's coming next. This guy only gets tips from the dancers, and there are only 6 during his shift. But wait, there's more. On Tues, and Weds, the cook also DJ's. When they told me that, I had to leave. This is not the only club doing this. There is a club up the street that advertises "You be the DJ, with Internet jukebox". One club I'm trying to get in, the DJ does not mix at all, just one video after the other. It's hard for me to compete with the low pay he's getting, plus I don't drink. Some of his compensation is free drinks. Give me the money.
 
DJ Cyder wrote :
Your taking about the entire market of djing changing. What does that have to do with DJ hero? Does a F1 racing game make you a F1 driver? Its the same thing. The fact that there is a game makes the real guys even more legit. Who remembers the dm2?


I personally have not played the game...and I don't scratch anyway and I understand that is the basis of the game. A properly done "game" can be a fantastic training tool though.

Your comparison to F1 is totally ludacris though as it takes millions and millions of dollars in hardware, machinery, engineers, scientists and team members as well as many square miles of track for F1....the driver is not the entire team as a DJ is. The F1 driver can't simply roll up to the track in a beat up 2002 Huyndai and say let's race, but a DJ can show up at an event with a radio shack mixer, a less than state of the art laptop, plug in to the bars pathetic background system and a lot of bar owners are happy as long as the customers are buying drinks.

However, on that note, someday you or I or any bedroom racedriver will be able to be an F1 driver as eventually due to real estate costs for the tracks, escalating costs for all labor and personnel I mentioned above, safety concerns as the cars get faster and environmental concerns the "real" cars and tracks will dissappear and races WILL be done in simulators.

Here in America they have already opened a few driving schools to compete with Petty, Bonderant and the like that are COMPLETELY simulators and they have been talking about running leagues...even networking leagues between simulators installed all over the world. They even have a project underway that is "digitizing" all of the world's famous race tracks so you will be able to race Monte Carlo as if you were there! In fact the simulators are already so accurate and realistic with entire portions of cities digitally mapped and GPS'd that they have been adapted and are now training police, security, fire fighters, chauffer's etc. defensive driving and evasive driving skills.....all with no cars, no track, no pit crews...just virtual driving software that started out as simplistic games like pole position!

The world is changing my friends and Djing will not escape it's grasp so make the best of it while you can. I just hope I can make it these last few years before my retirement....than maybe I'll try the F1 career!
 
dizzyrocks2001 wrote :
There are still some people willing to pay for a good DJ with experience, DJs who know what to play, when to play it and how to play it, and they aren't just a warm body behind the decks.


You hit the key phrase there..."there are still SOME people. even 5 years ago it was MOST bar owners wanted good Djs, now they don't believe there is a difference and so they want the CHEAPEST regardless of your skill.

dizzyrocks2001 wrote :
if he gives you the boot because some noob will do it for less then you, you weren't that good of a DJ to begin with.


If he gave it to some noob with at least the level of talent or better, hey is's a free market so be it he is getting better VALUE then and he deserves that, we all do. When you get replaced "because some noob will do it for less" regardless of their talent level then that has nothing to do with diminishing skills, only a deteriorating market as the owners no longer see the VALUE in an experienced and talented Dj.

I have only been replaced once in my career by someone who was cheaper for cheapers sake. I have, however, not gotten MANY gigs because the first question the owner asked at an interview was not "How good are you, how much experience do you have, where do you play now so I can come hear you and see you work a crowd".....but, no their first question is always HOW MUCH DO YOU CHARGE. The question should be HOW MUCH MONEY WILL YOU MAKE MY BAR!

I lose and turn down A LOT of gigs here in Phoenix/Scottsdale and Vegas because I refuse to work for the $100 to $150 a night most bar owners want to pay (hell the round trip and hotel in Vegas cost over $150 alone). The bar owners don't want to work for $150 per night profit and as an independent entreprenuer I don't want to work for $150 per night either (and what they pay you is gross not even profit).

My very first club Dj gig was for Black Angus Restaurants as an employee in 1982. I had no equipment to buy, no music to buy as they provided it all, I worked 30 hours per week, got a free steak dinner before each shift, got health insurance, 2 weeks paid vacation per year and $500 per week salary. Why in God's name 27 years later with a cost of living 400% greater would I ever want to work for $500 per week but now it is GROSS pay not net AND I have to provide my own system, provide my own music, only get the steak dinner at the 20% employee discount AND THEN HURT ME HURT ME they want me to do THEIR advertising and marketing and promoting and bring a FOLLOWING!!!!!!!!!!

If anyone loves Djing so much you want to whore yourself out like that, that is each and every Dj's choosing, for me when bar owners willing to pay a repsectable (and liveable) $400-$500 per night are gone so am I.
 
I havent seen dj hero but I have heard that the concept behind it is based on actual dj techniques - correct levels, beatmatching, etc. If it raises the general public's appreciation for the skills involved in 'proper' djing, I'm for it. I'm probably a bit glass half full, but I still hold on to the fact that many novices grabbing a copy of vdj and automixing through some tracks would hear the limitations and want to find a way to do it better themselves. I would hope the same with guitar hero.

More likely you are correct in that it will just create more noobs willing to work for nothing in clubs that will soon go under.

I dont envy guys still trying to make a living from clubs alone, but its more about being able to play music you actually like than making money if you're doing clubs isnt it? Otherwise you could be getting paid twice as much for less hours doing private functions for people that are happy to be there with friends and family, not just to get pissed and laid.

I like playing clubs a lot but I couldnt do it every weekend any more ;)
 
There is not a demise of the Professional DJ are you crazy? There still people that can't mix there way out of paperbag even with all the fancy equipment. I use Beatmatch in VDJ as a convenience not a crutch, I can still mix without it and have to turn it off to juggle beats/dj tricks anyway.

DJ Hero is just a game and fun game at that, but if you haven't used the hardware you'll see its not professional level stuff, its not even up to RMX level of fader for example. Its similar to the shitty stock fader that comes with Nurmark's IDJ2.

Mixmeister hasn't sent professional DJ's packing either and that software does all the "hard stuff" for you. You still have to be able to program, read a crowd and knowledge of music only comes with age and experience. If your 16 and playing for a bunch of 16 year olds you don't have much use for old school. But if you really want to make money you need knowledge of music and you can't just play one gender of music as often happens these days.

I'm not worried about making the hobby/profession of DJing more accessible. All Rock Band and Guitar Hero have done is fuel sales in the flagging instrument market. Anybody serious about starting a band knows they'll need real instruments, they won't be taking a TV screen and an Xbox 360 with them to some block party expecting people to take them seriously...

Same thing with DJ Hero, sure you could try to do a gig with it, but once somebody asked you to play something not in the software or add on packs what are you suppose to do?

Stop worrying!
 
This is when the DJ has to change his game up. I went from DJ to DJ/Promotions, Take advantage of the clients and followers you have from previous club gigs, work out deals with club owners and run your own night. if you can take lets say a Tuesday night where a club is closed and bring them 200 People... that's about $2000 - $3000 at the Bar and $500 - 1500 at the door for you the DJ/Promotor.

You just have to work with what you have to make things happen

DJ SMG
http://www.enforcerdjs.com
 
DJ Hero has some killer sets from Great DJs.
I think it will not only intruduce new commers but
I will make Current DJs say... hey "I wana be a BETTER DJ"

hahaha!

The new technology makes the old things easier so you can concentrate on new things


DJ SMG!
 
It's a lot of fun. Simple as that.
 
DJ HERO - Ha HA !
100 songs , 3 buttons and crossfade - WOW !

120 to 200 $ depends which version you buy, plus a console 300 to 400 $ plus other fee - 75$ ( tax, shipping. or gas...)
let's say you just spent money in the drain...

Im not afraid of that dj hero.
DJ require - rythm, beat, creativity, improvisation at least.
so many other qualities i could say but you get my point..

many people will call themselves dj after been through that game, i say the game is never over, if you call ur self a dj.
When 2 o clock hit im like d$$% already. just getting into it !
AFTER PARTY EVERYONE!

HINT ; dont put same song twice in a night hahaha kinda hard with 100 songs booo hooo ;)
 
That game surely will ruin the image.. Something like a DJ UNION is needed!
 


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