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Sujet: I Dont Understand the Hate for the Wave... - Page: 1

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Wavys, Wave riders... I dont even know the rest of the terms that people are using. People, what's the deal? Why are there so many negative comments about features in almost all DJ software.

It is a digital tool of assistance to enhance mixing ability. For those that rely on it as a means of main support to their mixes, it shows in their product.

If you need or use it, then do so. If you don't, did you know that there are a Plethora of skins that you can download that allows you to turn it...off? Better yet, Prep and cue and use the pre-installed neck turn feature, and look away.

Why speak ill of others when it has little to do with you? Just my 2 piece, Please Share Yours.
 
Posté Tue 21 Aug 12 @ 7:01 pm
I don't think it's so much about using but how you look...... I can always tell the dj's that rely on the wave, one they don't EVER watch their crowd two the laptop is generally placed in front of their face so their crowd can't even see them and three it just Looks like their reading emails all night, never really getting into the mix or at least that's usually what it Looks like by their body language.
Don't get me wrong I understand it's purpose but some guys eyes never leave the screen, which is the problem in my opinion.... your audience feeds off you and if your busy watching the screen they'll feel left out......

Just one man's opinion....... Good Day
Huey
 
Yep, I 2nd that too, that's why a mix of skills will always produce a better outcome on both fronts enabiling you to entertain your crowd, so important, that's why vinyl was so good...for da movement of jah people...
 

You're kind of preaching to the converted here...if Pioneer weren't so cheap their CDJ's would have a good waveform too, just keep that in mind.
 
bagpuss wrote :

You're kind of preaching to the converted here...if Pioneer weren't so cheap their CDJ's would have a good waveform too, just keep that in mind.


Whats that mean??
 
you mix more delicately when you just use your ears, your mix is more jerky and you barely listen to what is coming out of the speakers so your eqing suffers when you watch waveforms... One day you will learn that to be the truth, were just trying to save you some time figuring it out ;-)
 
Just a reminder that the two aren't mutually exclusive.

It *is* possible to use the waveform to line up your mix initially, and then use your ears to fine tune the beat matching.
 
I don't like being negative with the 'new' tools on the dj industry.
However people tend to be negative with "wave riding" because you simply try to interpret sound with an image...

Don't get me wrong. Sound engineers have been using spectrums and wave analysis images for ages, but they use it to analyze various sound attributes. And even then they have learn from the very early stage of their career that "what you hear" is what matters the most.

Same rule applies here. Personally I'm not negative, as soon as the "user" have learn to trust his ears more than his eyes.

It's the same old debate with the "sync" button really... For some "users" sync is cheating, for others it's just a tool that gives you more time to focus on other aspects of entertaining your crowd. The truth is somewhere in between... For SEVERAL reasons you "must" be able to beatmatch by ear before you can go out there and use the sync button freely. Because when you learn to beatmatch by ear first, you learn to trust your ears and what you hear. You learn to pay attention to the sound you produce. That's what your audience is listening to!

Imagine that you want to be a car driver in F1. All modern F1 cars have automatic transmission gearboxes.
However you can't just take a F1 car and start racing. You have to learn to drive with manual transmission gearboxes first in order to understand why and when you must shift your gear up or down and what's the actual physics behind your actions. Then you can take your automatic gearbox F1 and start driving around...

Same rule applies for several tools in the dj industry. You have to learn the "physical" / "manual" way of doing things first before you let the tools "automate" a part of your job.

And while I'm still at it:

Do drivers in F1 cheat because they use automatic gearboxes, or because their cars have stability control management ? I don't think so...
Yes there's a nostalgia for older eras where the cars were more simple without electronic brains guarding half or more of the car's performance, but no-one calls the modern drivers "cheaters".

That's how dj-ing should also be for the new kids IMHO... Start by learning the basics without fancy tools, learn to understand the sound "physics" and sound attributes, and then move forward to more sophisticated/complex mixing and tools. Once you have mastered the "basics" then you won't whine why "sync" for instance looses phase after 64 beats, or why deck B is 1 db louder than deck A.
 
beatbreaker1 wrote :
Whats that mean??


First point being that most people here use VDJ so they're probably not anti waveform/BPM or any time saving mixing aides, if you went to the Pioneer forum you will probably find quite a few who are anti software, forgetting as I always say that CDJ's aren't traditional hardware in a true sense, they're still loaded with software/technology, it has an onboard computer but is less powerful/sophisticated than an i7 laptop. This is perhaps the new argument, how much computer power and what display size is acceptable? The lines are increasingly becoming blurred, but all they can do is hate on a sync button which simply matches two BPM values, but with a CDJ you can move that slider without pre-listening and get the same result (matching two values).

Actually most of the above wasn't the point. CDJ's have a waveform just like serato/Traktor/VDJ except they are not high resolution with zoom options etc, I don't believe they've designed CDJ's in this manner due to ideological reasons but more for reasons of cost management, many people argue that they don't offer what they could for the price of the units. The CDJ-400 was over popular, it was competing too much with the more expensive models as it packed too much of a punch, therefore was discontinued.

The magic of DJ'ing was once about getting two beats in time I no longer believe that to be the case, it's increasingly becoming about what else you can do, so I expect all hardware/software solutions to continue in the development of beat matching technology.

Another serious point which is often overlooked is the amount of loudness DJ's are exposed to, through the headphones and the monitors, if you do this most nights you're probably going to start getting ear pains, killing off cells that can't be repaired. So just to play devils advocate, if technology can save your ears, so you might have good hearing for the duration of your life is that not a good thing? Your grand kids will one day be playing with technology that's out of this world compared to what we're using now, and it'll be like "when I was your age we had to do it by ear" and the kid replies; and now you're a deaf old git as a result, how clever.
 
Nice one guys....it's a good summation of the key factors at play here...and should hopefully quail down the silly rabbits..
 
I went out and paid for ear plugs that I wear under my headphones............
 
beatbreaker1 wrote :
I don't think it's so much about using but how you look...... I can always tell the dj's that rely on the wave, one they don't EVER watch their crowd two the laptop is generally placed in front of their face so their crowd can't even see them and three it just Looks like their reading emails all night, never really getting into the mix or at least that's usually what it Looks like by their body language.
Don't get me wrong I understand it's purpose but some guys eyes never leave the screen, which is the problem in my opinion.... your audience feeds off you and if your busy watching the screen they'll feel left out......

Just one man's opinion....... Good Day
Huey


This is an extremely accurate account of a low budget DJ/chancer, they never rock the party and their only angle is the low ball price they put them selves out at! What a sad life.

I am one of those that pushed for an option to remove the way from a community based skin that was made and I'm really glad that I did as the wave provides me with nothing useful, half the time it wrong anyway. Now I have more browser space and a well spec'd skin packed with features I will use.
 
PhantomDeejay wrote :

Imagine that you want to be a car driver in F1. All modern F1 cars have automatic transmission gearboxes.
However you can't just take a F1 car and start racing. You have to learn to drive with manual transmission gearboxes first in order to understand why and when you must shift your gear up or down and what's the actual physics behind your actions. Then you can take your automatic gearbox F1 and start driving around...


Love the wave for songs that I just know yet or cant remember when the vocal comes in. I have about 5 to 10 different remixes for the same song. In my old age I have enough "stuff" I need to remember. This is just one more tool to use. Its also helped when times my headphones or mixer failed and all kinds of "emergency" issues.

-David
 
The wave doesnt tell you when the vocals are gonna come in!

Were talking about the blocks that scroll across the top.
 
The image translators work for the construct program. But there's way too much information to decode the Matrix. You get used to it. I..I don't even see the code. All I see is blonde, brunette, red-head.
 
Love the wave for songs that I just know yet or cant remember when the vocal comes in. I have about 5 to 10 different remixes for the same song. In my old age I have enough "stuff" I need to remember. This is just one more tool to use. Its also helped when times my headphones or mixer failed and all kinds of "emergency" issues.

-David[/quote]

I don't hate the wave, it has made my life much more easier. Just like David said, I use the wave to spot the vocals and the breaks. I don't have the memory I once used to, I'm glad I can use the wave to spot these in my new music ASAP and set up cue points where I need them. Also comes in handy when your mixing music that has live instruments, good some of those drummers cant keep a beat!

I still rely on my ear to fine tune songs but the wave saves me a lot of prep time.

To each it's own! People using CDJs or mixers with BPM technology cannot day a damn thing about Digital DJs. They still have aids, they might not be on a large laptop screen but they still have them. If they want to keep it real then they better bring out some turntables with a crate full of records. That reminds me, I was moving around some of my gear lately and damn I don't miss carrying around my 1200s and crates full of records, I had forgotten how heavy they are. Yes Digital DJ software has made my life easier in more ways than one and I am not going back to the old days. Don't get me wrong I still have 6 1200s and crates full of records that I enjoy mixing with but I rarely take them out to gigs anymore.

I also don't care about a DJ relying on waves or sync buttons because the bottom line is that even with those tools at your disposal you will suck if you don't have the most basic of DJ skill....It's all about the musicality!

 
yk23 wrote :
The image translators work for the construct program. But there's way too much information to decode the Matrix. You get used to it. I..I don't even see the code. All I see is blonde, brunette, red-head.



where is the like button for this one
 
 
@MAGAGAR ....


my unbiased opinion of drummers is they are wonderful,wonderful people

and rarely full of s!%t ......

much beloved by the general population and , well , true humanitarians.......
 
Hey guys, Good feed back and discussion, I love that this has evolved into something healthy and thought provoking( aka. the flame wars have not been lit).

I started with VDJ at home and learned the basics from there. I was able to do it by ear on semi-analog ( see: CDJ's and unfamiliar cd's no sync) and I understand the concept.

I approve of understanding the basics first for many reasons. Here's one to consider.

VDJ, in all of its mathematical glory, does NOT have the all knowing algorithm to Beat-Map all tracks perfectly, or the BPM for tracks that have various tempo changes or transitions( see: big room -> Moombahton transitions, live or classic studio performance parts with real instruments.) I have to know how to properly adjust with a light touch that track to nudge forward or back that BPM so that I can keep it from becoming a bag of hammers in a dryer coming out of my speakers.

I do like that I can skip to the big drop for transitions easily by scanning the wave form, and jump back to the top of the track for a "rewind moment".

However, I don't need it. I would rather party with the crowd to the track.

ALL Day, 'ER Day.
 
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