PhantomDeejay
groovindj wrote :
Numark's DMC1 was first, for Visiosonic (PCDJ). Connection was via serial port. Ancient stuff!
Exactly, that was my first controller (and it had LCD screens !)
My second controller was Denon HC-4500 which also had LCD screens and the screens supported MIDI control ;)
In fact I still have these two controllers laying around my warehouse! :)
As for controllers with their own "software"
Technically they are not controllers. They are hybrid devices that support both stand-alone playback and MIDI/HID control mode.
A "controller" technically is a device that "controls" something. It doesn't do anything without the other part of the equation which is something that can be controlled (in out case a dj software)
One of the first hybrid devices was Denon HC4500 among with BU4500 (optional) CD Bay.
It supported stand-alone playback as a normal CD-player, but at the same time it could be used as a MIDI controller as well.
It was released on September 2007
Then the next 2 hybrid units I can think of were Denon HD2500 released on November 2007 followed by Pioneer CDJ-400 released later the same year, December 2007
In other words, the first hybrid units were all released in 2007 and they are almost one decade old now!
The first hybrid unit that made an attempt to include a more sophisticated firmware that resembled something like "software" was Pioneer's CDJ-2000 released on December 2009.
Pioneer's XDJ-RX was the first hybrid controller that put dual scratch waveforms on the same screen, but it was not the first hybrid that could display scratch waveforms.
Numark's NV was the first controller that put scratch waveforms on a screen in 2014 followed by Numark's NS7III an year later (2015)
Pioneer's first (and only) controller that put scratch waveforms on screen is DDJ-RZX released in August 2016
Posté Thu 08 Jun 17 @ 7:13 pm
Stamat B
Guy's I did not came to argue with anybody! I know they existed but they was simple lcd screens/controllers , not dj software based. Last couple of years they have been laptop based just midi . I have started talking about how controllers getting computerized,software built in new controllers with touch screens ,hard drives,memory stick ,scratch waves a little bit modern devices more like computers not about old cd players especially this for museum. Non of them can be compared to Pioneer xdj rx, pioneer xdj rx are computer comparable to those old cd players mentioned earlier with simple lcd screens..
they are not comparable to pioneer today's controllers these are computers and that old ones are simple programing devices for today's technologies.
Even Pioneer cdj's was simple lcd display long a go with simple operations,now they are computers....I just tried to say this is where technologies goes..
My question is will we be able to see happening with VDJ to go that way standalone no need of computer , controller with VDJ classic waves on controllers with touch screens,play list, external hard drive based,memory stick etc ....
they are not comparable to pioneer today's controllers these are computers and that old ones are simple programing devices for today's technologies.
Even Pioneer cdj's was simple lcd display long a go with simple operations,now they are computers....I just tried to say this is where technologies goes..
My question is will we be able to see happening with VDJ to go that way standalone no need of computer , controller with VDJ classic waves on controllers with touch screens,play list, external hard drive based,memory stick etc ....
Posté Thu 08 Jun 17 @ 11:18 pm
hrdnx
In answer to the original question
https://djworx.com/
https://djworx.com/
Posté Fri 09 Jun 17 @ 1:45 am
The Hofff 
hrdnx wrote :
In answer to the original question
https://djworx.com/
https://djworx.com/
Thanks :o)
Posté Fri 09 Jun 17 @ 2:56 am
PhantomDeejay
nicholas123 wrote :
Guy's I did not came to argue with anybody! I know they existed but they was simple lcd screens/controllers , not dj software based. Last couple of years they have been laptop based just midi . I have started talking about how controllers getting computerized,software built in new controllers with touch screens ,hard drives,memory stick ,scratch waves a little bit modern devices more like computers not about old cd players especially this for museum. Non of them can be compared to Pioneer xdj rx, pioneer xdj rx are computer comparable to those old cd players mentioned earlier with simple lcd screens..
they are not comparable to pioneer today's controllers these are computers and that old ones are simple programing devices for today's technologies.
Even Pioneer cdj's was simple lcd display long a go with simple operations,now they are computers....I just tried to say this is where technologies goes..
My question is will we be able to see happening with VDJ to go that way standalone no need of computer , controller with VDJ classic waves on controllers with touch screens,play list, external hard drive based,memory stick etc ....
they are not comparable to pioneer today's controllers these are computers and that old ones are simple programing devices for today's technologies.
Even Pioneer cdj's was simple lcd display long a go with simple operations,now they are computers....I just tried to say this is where technologies goes..
My question is will we be able to see happening with VDJ to go that way standalone no need of computer , controller with VDJ classic waves on controllers with touch screens,play list, external hard drive based,memory stick etc ....
It depends on how you define the word "argue"
You express an opinion and you are entitled to it.
Other users may also express their opinion which is not necessarily the same as yours.
That's "arguing" and you cannot prevent it from happening since you post your opinion on an open forum.
If you define the word "argue" as in "fighting", then no, we are not fighting! We just have different opinions!
Back to the subject:
No, the units you mentioned ARE NOT computers, NOR they have built in computers.
They DO have sophisticated firmwares and perform much more functions in a more efficient way than before, that's true. They even have fancy graphics!
However in order to be classified as devices with a built in computer, you must be able to load / download and run SOFTWARE on them.
Gaming consoles for instance technically can be classified as "computers" since you can load software (games) and execute them!
On today's DJ devices you can't. You are entitled to whatever firmware (hardcoded software on a chip inside the device) the device has.
This is the same today as it was in 2007 or in 2002.
A "controller" with a "built-in computer" should allow you to load and execute software on it. Even if you had to write the software "it's own" way (write it according to the device demands and specifications, pretty much the same manner as it happens with gaming consoles)
I don't know how close we are on an era that hardware manufacturers would be ready to open their devices on such a potential.
Technically it's easy with today's technology. However for hardware manufacturers there are a lot more things to consider:
From releasing what today is proprietary information (the inside mechanics of a device), up to technical support, marketing and logistics everything has to be closely considered before a hardware company takes the decision to make / release such a device.
The simplest way to do it right now would be to include a "stick pc" or a "mini pc" inside a device with a monitor that boots on Windows and provides MIDI and audio connections directly.
However such a move from a company means that you could run VirtualDj, Traktor, Serato, Rekordbox, Mixvibes, or ANY other software you may like, and the company most likely would not be able to close an "exclusive" deal and effectively loose money...
Another way would be to boot the device with a Linux kernel (or even Android which is a Linux kernel after all) and provide a specific API for other programmers to write applications for it, which then you would have to revise and approve. However such a movement could result the unit not being popular and dropped.
There are other ways this could be done as well, but as you see there's more than meets they eye on such a movement.
PS: We are in 2017 and still you need to analyze your files on a COMPUTER (PC or MAC) first in order to use ALL functions of these modern dj devices that you classify as "computers"
The top-of-the-line Pioneer CDJ-2000NXS2 still can't fully analyze tracks on the fly (directly from a USB stick)
The new Denon SC5000 Prime promises that it will be the first DJ Device that will be able to fully analyze a track on the device itself and it remains to be seen if it will do it sufficiently or not. (Denon still recommends to analyze your tracks on computer first, leaving the "on the fly" device analysis function as a supplementary tool for the "last minute" tracks you add on a USB Stick)
PS2:
The XDJ-RX is not a computer and initially it's screen was not meant to be used by DJ software! You can load files from a USB stick directly on XDJ-RX but you won't have the full waveforms showing up. In order to have the full waveforms you need to analyze the files on a computer first!
Conclusion:
There are not yet DJ devices with a built-in computer. There are devices with sophisticated firmwares that are able to show nice graphics, but pretty much that's it.
Once a hardware manufacturer company decides to release a dj device with a built in computer, Atomix (and pretty much all other Dj software companies) will decide accordingly what they'll do depending on the device specific technical, legal and financial details.
Posté Fri 09 Jun 17 @ 10:19 am
groovindj
Remember this from a few years ago?
Posté Fri 09 Jun 17 @ 5:05 pm
PhantomDeejay
PhantomDeejay wrote :
Numark's NV was the first controller that put scratch waveforms on a screen in 2014 followed by Numark's NS7III an year later (2015)
Numark's NV was the first controller that put scratch waveforms on a screen in 2014 followed by Numark's NS7III an year later (2015)
groovindj wrote :
Remember this from a few years ago?
Still, not a computer, nor a device with embedded computer. In fact NS7III does not support stand alone playback. Only the mixer is Hybrid! :)
Posté Fri 09 Jun 17 @ 6:58 pm
groovindj
It's running Windows (embedded). It was one of the devices shown by Numark & Akai at a Microsoft conference.
Posté Fri 09 Jun 17 @ 7:20 pm
Stamat B
Guy's I have never looked at numark,gemini et...c as a dj product because is just very poor quality they could make whatever they want first I would not look at it that's way I have never notice probably. I have always looked for Pioneer product and that's way I think it's new.even if I just seen this one before I have never take that company seriously...
I must say that I have used cheap equipment like every dj did due to the financial situation. but I have follow the big brand names Pioneer and Technics
I have used once Gemini mixer I just regret for every penny I have spend on it Numark as well same thing.
I have tried Denon I have believed that Denon is one who could stand close to Pioneer but I was wrong!
Once you have tried Pioneer mixer's simply you won't go back to this cheap ones unless you can not afford better.
I'm not saying that Pioneer is perfect always XDJ - RX it's not perfect in my eyes I like the quality built,but what is missing on that controller :is touch screen on it and keyboard search option, if they done that then that would be perfect controller in my eyes...
I must say that I have used cheap equipment like every dj did due to the financial situation. but I have follow the big brand names Pioneer and Technics
I have used once Gemini mixer I just regret for every penny I have spend on it Numark as well same thing.
I have tried Denon I have believed that Denon is one who could stand close to Pioneer but I was wrong!
Once you have tried Pioneer mixer's simply you won't go back to this cheap ones unless you can not afford better.
I'm not saying that Pioneer is perfect always XDJ - RX it's not perfect in my eyes I like the quality built,but what is missing on that controller :is touch screen on it and keyboard search option, if they done that then that would be perfect controller in my eyes...
Posté Fri 09 Jun 17 @ 8:29 pm
PhantomDeejay
groovindj wrote :
It's running Windows (embedded). It was one of the devices shown by Numark & Akai at a Microsoft conference.
Most likely a prototype then since NS7III does not run anything :p
Posté Fri 09 Jun 17 @ 9:58 pm
PhantomDeejay
nicholas123 wrote :
Once you have tried Pioneer mixer's simply you won't go back to this cheap ones unless you can not afford better.
Once you have tried Pioneer mixer's simply you won't go back to this cheap ones unless you can not afford better.
I don't know what the definition of "cheap" is for you, but you should always compare equipment that belongs on the same category.
You can't compare a $200 Numark mixer with a $1500+ Pioneer one for instance, but you can compare a $1500 Denon one with a $2000 Pioneer one.
Also since you mentioned mixers you should also try Rane and Allen & Heath ones :)
God I would love to use a Rane MP2015 once live!
Posté Fri 09 Jun 17 @ 10:04 pm
Stamat B
Phantom dj I agree for Rane and Allen & Heath are the best mixers out there.
but not so many people have money for them!
I have tried to say from my experience pioneer has better switches,they are nice sounding mixers/controllers etc. comparable to others similar price range product , I'm saying at the same range product for young dj's that is better to buy Pioneer dj mixers/controllers then something else...
I have tried traktor controller's all of them but noting like pioneer switches, pads,sound no chance I have tried even numark, again no chance to the feel of pioneer, that's personal choice I prefer Pioneer over all and I would recommend to other young dj's to try them self in the dj shops, just check the feel of switches on pioneer controllers mixers and you will know what I'm talking about....
but not so many people have money for them!
I have tried to say from my experience pioneer has better switches,they are nice sounding mixers/controllers etc. comparable to others similar price range product , I'm saying at the same range product for young dj's that is better to buy Pioneer dj mixers/controllers then something else...
I have tried traktor controller's all of them but noting like pioneer switches, pads,sound no chance I have tried even numark, again no chance to the feel of pioneer, that's personal choice I prefer Pioneer over all and I would recommend to other young dj's to try them self in the dj shops, just check the feel of switches on pioneer controllers mixers and you will know what I'm talking about....
Posté Fri 09 Jun 17 @ 10:53 pm
Don Moir
PhantomDeejay wrote :
However in order to be classified as devices with a built in computer, you must be able to load / download and run SOFTWARE on them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer
Posté Sat 10 Jun 17 @ 11:28 am