bagpuss
I thought that title would get a bit of attention, as well as have you jumping to conclusions "here we go again".
So we all know the over discussed notion that VDJ has a stigma or image issue, which is super boring at this point so enough about that.
But why not shake that up and add an extra 'mode' or at least the option(s) to take things back to basics? I'm thinking the default skin could have a mode or the ability to remove individual mix aids; i.e remove the waveforms and blank out the BPM displays, this would provide a fun and more manual experience that feels missing right now, some may want to perform in this mode while others may want to better train their ears in a practice environment, and removing the waveform all together would create a practical advantage (more browser space).
This is an idea that we talked about here some years ago and there was quite a bit of support for it, but the classic get out of jail free card of "you can use a skin" was waived in our faces by the more mod-centric users, but now things are changing, competition is getting tight, and VDJ could benefit from some good press; shattering the illusion that this software forces you into an automated workflow, and actually gives the user the power to decide how they want to play.
Virtual DJ; the virtual environment for real DJs, maybe...
So we all know the over discussed notion that VDJ has a stigma or image issue, which is super boring at this point so enough about that.
But why not shake that up and add an extra 'mode' or at least the option(s) to take things back to basics? I'm thinking the default skin could have a mode or the ability to remove individual mix aids; i.e remove the waveforms and blank out the BPM displays, this would provide a fun and more manual experience that feels missing right now, some may want to perform in this mode while others may want to better train their ears in a practice environment, and removing the waveform all together would create a practical advantage (more browser space).
This is an idea that we talked about here some years ago and there was quite a bit of support for it, but the classic get out of jail free card of "you can use a skin" was waived in our faces by the more mod-centric users, but now things are changing, competition is getting tight, and VDJ could benefit from some good press; shattering the illusion that this software forces you into an automated workflow, and actually gives the user the power to decide how they want to play.
Virtual DJ; the virtual environment for real DJs, maybe...
Posté Sun 10 Dec 17 @ 1:08 pm
wildcountryclub
Posté Sun 10 Dec 17 @ 2:15 pm
bagpuss
Trust you to lower the tone so early on ;)
Posté Sun 10 Dec 17 @ 4:07 pm
MickyMix250
I really don't understand what you are driving at here.
In an age where diversity and creative input from Dj's is bigger than ever before, why would you divest yourself of tools that can create a bigger canvass?
Why go back to the dark ages where you loose the ability to create?
Is not the purpose of entering the digital and computerised world of Dj'ing to be more creative, smoother and put on a more clever show of manipulation of music?
Why not ditch all the computers and go back to a basic mixer and a couple of turntables....is that not the same as you propose?
Honestly. I don't get where you are coming from one little bit....
So some Dj's are more or less talented...Those that use the Sync button do so to assist, not replace their skill.....Do not the ''Aids'' allow more time to introduce other required skills, lighting, customer interaction etc...
Tools are to be used, why step backwards and I have to question what you gain....
In an age where diversity and creative input from Dj's is bigger than ever before, why would you divest yourself of tools that can create a bigger canvass?
Why go back to the dark ages where you loose the ability to create?
Is not the purpose of entering the digital and computerised world of Dj'ing to be more creative, smoother and put on a more clever show of manipulation of music?
Why not ditch all the computers and go back to a basic mixer and a couple of turntables....is that not the same as you propose?
Honestly. I don't get where you are coming from one little bit....
So some Dj's are more or less talented...Those that use the Sync button do so to assist, not replace their skill.....Do not the ''Aids'' allow more time to introduce other required skills, lighting, customer interaction etc...
Tools are to be used, why step backwards and I have to question what you gain....
Posté Sun 10 Dec 17 @ 6:23 pm
bagpuss
I'm all for the technology, I've been here since 2002 and some of my ideas along the way have found their way into the software, thanks to a responsive user base and development team.
See the message here gets lost due to people considering such an idea a threat to their workflow; it wouldn't be, it's just an option for those who'd like to strip things back to basics for fun or to practice true mixing by ear, something which I still believe is an important aspect of DJing, because the technology will never be 100% correct.
It's a bit like the game battlefield 1, tens of millions have embraced the game, so they can shoot bolt action rifles at an enemy they'll never know (WW1) why was such a step backwards so embraced? When they could've been jumping around like idiots in spacesuits with lasers in COD?
Perhaps it's about options, nostalgic value, entertainment and education.
Posté Sun 10 Dec 17 @ 7:08 pm
wickedmix
just so we are straight what you actually want is a default skin option that takes away sync, quantize, smart options etc... would this even include taking away sampler beat matching? if so I do not like that idea.
this would be good for the folks working on DVS that prefer to beat match and beat juggle manually.
I can see this would have a place and it could take the mystery out of disabling some of this stuff there's always questions about it.
this would be good for the folks working on DVS that prefer to beat match and beat juggle manually.
I can see this would have a place and it could take the mystery out of disabling some of this stuff there's always questions about it.
Posté Sun 10 Dec 17 @ 7:43 pm
bagpuss
wickedmix wrote :
just so we are straight what you actually want is a default skin option that takes away sync, quantize, smart options etc... would this even include taking away sampler beat matching? if so I do not like that idea.
this would be good for the folks working on DVS that prefer to beat match and beat juggle manually.
I can see this would have a place and it could take the mystery out of disabling some of this stuff there's always questions about it.
this would be good for the folks working on DVS that prefer to beat match and beat juggle manually.
I can see this would have a place and it could take the mystery out of disabling some of this stuff there's always questions about it.
Really what I'm asking for is two things; the ability to turn off the waveforms (allocating that space to the browser) and the ability to turn off the BPM display on the decks.
All features and mappings would still be active, so you could still hit sync, use the sampler etc.
The idea isn't to force a workflow but to let the DJ have more control over the interface, so in theory a more manual experience would be possible for those who desire it. Like you say, some users are into their turntables and would no doubt enjoy the back to basics option, just as a new DJ who gets a $200 controller for xmas may want to learn how to beatmatch for all the fun, frustration and reward it has to offer.
Posté Sun 10 Dec 17 @ 8:21 pm
the SOUND INSURGENT
@Bagpuss, these guys around here don’t get it. I mean some of us older cats do but most here don’t have a clue.
Me personally just use PhantomDeejays SliverSleek skin with the waves off or I’ll just use SSL or I’ll actually get my records out and mix.
We’ve asked for a stripped back version and it fell on deaf ears then as well.
Me personally just use PhantomDeejays SliverSleek skin with the waves off or I’ll just use SSL or I’ll actually get my records out and mix.
We’ve asked for a stripped back version and it fell on deaf ears then as well.
Posté Sun 10 Dec 17 @ 8:55 pm
wildcountryclub
bagpuss wrote :
Trust you to lower the tone so early on ;)
Trust you to lower the tone so early on ;)
it was the first thing to flash in my head after reading.
the stunned panic looks on the youngsters faces when suddenly faced with a lack of all the heavy tech toys and tools they lean on...
but I get it. while there is that certain something that ticks in the back of your head to the years and years ago when we put headphones on and there was no computer monitor in front of us and the only thing between you and an empty dance floor was actual skill.
I got a late start doing this. it wasn't til the mid 90's when I got into radio professionally and then started realizing the corporate radio thing was just stifling. strip club gigs were good side money but there wasn't much interaction except with the pretty girl on the stage (not that that was a bad interaction) but when I started unofficially here in this place back in 98 there was no computer screen - a couple of 1200's, some denon cd decks that were just amazing tech because you could use the technology to do things that you just couldn't do with the 1200's, 2 cassette decks, and 2 VCR's that we played music videos on. 95% of the non-country we were playing was all on vinyl and we had over 20 deep cabinet drawers FULL of them (low-end estimated $250,000 loss when the place burned down in '02)
it took some work to get a set together, some skill to keep them playing, and even more skill and talent to keep the floor moving.
I have no idea how I did it and didn't get fed to the sharks. I was still a comparative noob at it with about 6 years total experience. but almost 20 years later in the same residence i'm still here...
are there times when I miss it?
no, not really. not in the sense of that much nostalgia pull to go back to 'the good old days' of stressing out over it and keeping a thousand people happy if it didn't sound perfect. I really like having more time to read and monitor the crowd, not having to worry about riding the pitch and keeping that clip-clop floor killing sound out of their ears, or having to get too distracted and into panic mode if there was trouble out in the club and I had to send in security while multi-tasking like crazy.
times change, and as we get older we feel that nostalgia pull sometimes. would it be fun to see the panic stricken faces of the guys who never had to mix without a monitor screen? sure. but without a lot of practice first.... i'd sound like a Tracker train wreck till it came back.
Posté Sun 10 Dec 17 @ 9:05 pm
MickyMix250
Do you all think that a Dj who was bought up on 1200's and a mixer are better equiped in this modern age?
I myself first used 1200's around 70 or 80....I forget the exact year, I am that old. Yes, I have done it like you guys when it was you against the task of seemless music flow and the limited tools we had to hand.
But, the world has moved on somewhat.
As a shopfitter, I started with manual tools, now everything is powered...go back to using tools that wore the user out? To what end? Nostalgia?....I produce better results now than I ever could then and better quality...
Newbies coming along will only ever know the modern way and the results they can produce sometimes astonish me. Its not about them having it easy, they learn what they have at their disposal and they thrive on it.
Three cheers for the future and remember.....The dinosaurs are all dead....
I myself first used 1200's around 70 or 80....I forget the exact year, I am that old. Yes, I have done it like you guys when it was you against the task of seemless music flow and the limited tools we had to hand.
But, the world has moved on somewhat.
As a shopfitter, I started with manual tools, now everything is powered...go back to using tools that wore the user out? To what end? Nostalgia?....I produce better results now than I ever could then and better quality...
Newbies coming along will only ever know the modern way and the results they can produce sometimes astonish me. Its not about them having it easy, they learn what they have at their disposal and they thrive on it.
Three cheers for the future and remember.....The dinosaurs are all dead....
Posté Sun 10 Dec 17 @ 9:24 pm
bagpuss
Dinosaurs are dead, I'm not so sure about jazzy Jeff though...he's still going, but in just a few years we'll all be dead so who wins?
We could ponder analogies all day. Do you drive a manual or automatic? You looking forward to driver less cars taking over? No doubt that'll happen in 20-30 years. It may be practical, good for road safety, but what about all the guys who enjoy flooring it in their sports cars? It'll be boring for them.
Luckily in this case it's a false dichotomy, we can have it all, the option to go old school or to surf those waves and embrace video game DJing, but let's not dance on that needle, it's not about ideology but choices for a diverse user base.
Posté Sun 10 Dec 17 @ 9:49 pm
mp3jrick
First, not all the dinosaurs are dead, close but not all lol
PC equates to Automatic
Control vinyl equates to Stick
Direct drive Vinyl equates to Horseback
Belt drive Vinyl equates to bare back
Sure, a rodeo where people see you climb on with nothing but a rope is gonna impress people, but they all come to see you get thrown off lol
Hows THAT for an analogy?
PC equates to Automatic
Control vinyl equates to Stick
Direct drive Vinyl equates to Horseback
Belt drive Vinyl equates to bare back
Sure, a rodeo where people see you climb on with nothing but a rope is gonna impress people, but they all come to see you get thrown off lol
Hows THAT for an analogy?
Posté Sun 10 Dec 17 @ 10:15 pm
mp3jrick
You could do this with wood carving tools also.
If it weren't for technology only a highly skilled wood wizard could do it.
https://www.facebook.com/diplycrafty/videos/1760883377307277/
If it weren't for technology only a highly skilled wood wizard could do it.
https://www.facebook.com/diplycrafty/videos/1760883377307277/
Posté Sun 10 Dec 17 @ 10:33 pm
bagpuss
Just done a bit of homework it's possible on Pioneer players and Serato, obviously Traktor doesn't have overlapping waveforms. Looks like these guys all got it wrong to have an option.
Posté Sun 10 Dec 17 @ 11:19 pm
AsTheDJ
Open the zip folder and change the color ( name number to BLACK ) 1E1B1B -Black and use just the ex-skin then zip back and rename it less Virtual or some Dj will make a BLACK out skin
Posté Sun 10 Dec 17 @ 11:34 pm
groovindj
I still agree with what was apparently said about this before. You can use a skin.
One of the best known, most famous things about VDJ is that it can be skinned, and made to look however the user/skinner wants it to look.
Controversially in the past it's been made to look like Serato software and like Traktor. It still can be, but the skins aren't avavailable here.
Why should it be necessary to have the default skin transform, when it's just as simple to transform VDJ's appearance by switching skin?
Plenty of skins already exist that can switch off various elements used on the default skin. Some even look like the default skin.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2gCadq9xQM
One of the best known, most famous things about VDJ is that it can be skinned, and made to look however the user/skinner wants it to look.
Controversially in the past it's been made to look like Serato software and like Traktor. It still can be, but the skins aren't avavailable here.
Why should it be necessary to have the default skin transform, when it's just as simple to transform VDJ's appearance by switching skin?
Plenty of skins already exist that can switch off various elements used on the default skin. Some even look like the default skin.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2gCadq9xQM
Posté Mon 11 Dec 17 @ 8:49 am
klausmogensen
How about the dance infinity skin?
It does have waveforms overview, but other than that, it doesn't have too much help
It does have waveforms overview, but other than that, it doesn't have too much help
Posté Mon 11 Dec 17 @ 11:30 am
VDJ Ron
I would bear in mind that spending time beatmixing impedes a DJ's ability to communicate with his audience. Traditional mixing may well become obsolete with the advances in computer technology. We may not be needed unless we get stuck in and communicate with the audience. I don't believe a computer can get a crowd going.
Back to basics..no I don't think so, that is the road to obsolescence.
Back to basics..no I don't think so, that is the road to obsolescence.
Posté Mon 11 Dec 17 @ 3:45 pm
Stretchincanada
screams .. "SHOW ME THE MONEY!" i think things have changed. pay checks are the same size as the bottle return money. We use to have less competition and i made more.. I once proved a point guy wanted me to dj for 150.00 a night . i brought a office chair and a laptop and mouse. To his surprise i filled the place to the top. At the end of the night he cam over and complained. I looked up and said you want old school dj and amazing gear you pay for it.. He never had me back. Needless to say his places went from place to be to did you have a coupon ? Truth is this. 1400 gets you anything you want . The tables and smart screens 22 moving heads and more . I can mix with a cd player and a turning light switch .. skill .. motivation and crowd manipulation. skin or controller or cdj or reel to reel . it comes down to skill and knowledge and experience.. making stuff simpler makes us lazy. I love new addons and videos to show me then i make it work for me.. time are changing . learn or be replaced.
Posté Mon 11 Dec 17 @ 9:56 pm
bagpuss
I personally push the technology and my ability to the limit both in production and in DJ'ing, but core skills are essential and translate into other skills along the way, that's how you become a master, you master the art inside out until you can do it in your sleep. You don't have to become a master though, it's about choice and aspiration. Removing choices restricts the user, and may have them go elsewhere (Pioneer, Serato etc who allow for this workflow).
This is virtually the only forum in the DJ community you'll find, where more people oppose the idea that SOME users may enjoy playing without mixing aids OCCASIONALLY for performances, or for fun or the development of a core skill called beat mixing and its associated skills linked with timing.
"If you want to play like this just go out and buy some old CD players and a mixer" - why should I when I've got thousands of pounds worth of midi controllers sat here, with all my music on a laptop, can't you just let me turn off the waveforms?
Posté Mon 11 Dec 17 @ 10:07 pm
