DJ VinylTouch
Any chance that they wud bump the firmware to include the VirtualDJ timecode as an option?
Not that it affects anything much, but given that this aims to be a complete turntable replacement across the board and Rane thought about and included that on there side with the twelve mkii, it would make sense to do (and is minimum effort).
Also, with respect to this:
I'm sure they thought of and purposefully did this. A thought I had was, from a hardware sales perspective it actually could make sense to keep customers in the ecosystem...you have to have an official Serato/Rekordbox setup across the board, with at least two pieces giving them money (the turntable and an interface) instead of just one (the turntable being completely HID I suppose).
One truth seems to stand always for these kind of choices: The money always dictates the direction...so you follow the money and you'll probably find the answer.
Not that it affects anything much, but given that this aims to be a complete turntable replacement across the board and Rane thought about and included that on there side with the twelve mkii, it would make sense to do (and is minimum effort).
Also, with respect to this:
Quote :
PS: Even for "Digital Vinyl" you still need a DVS compatible sound interface since the unit does not send MIDI/HID data of the platter rotation, but instead it plays a DVS signal stored in it's own firmware.
PS: Even for "Digital Vinyl" you still need a DVS compatible sound interface since the unit does not send MIDI/HID data of the platter rotation, but instead it plays a DVS signal stored in it's own firmware.
I'm sure they thought of and purposefully did this. A thought I had was, from a hardware sales perspective it actually could make sense to keep customers in the ecosystem...you have to have an official Serato/Rekordbox setup across the board, with at least two pieces giving them money (the turntable and an interface) instead of just one (the turntable being completely HID I suppose).
One truth seems to stand always for these kind of choices: The money always dictates the direction...so you follow the money and you'll probably find the answer.
Posté Mon 16 Oct 23 @ 3:32 pm
Adion
Even in the pioneer ecosystem, the S11 has a usb hub, so with an audio interface a single cable would have been sufficient
Posté Mon 16 Oct 23 @ 4:07 pm
PhantomDeejay
If Pioneer wanted to include VirtualDJ digital TC signal for their "Digital Vinyl" mode, they could have asked and we would be more than happy to provide it to them.
At least that's what happened with Rane Twelve MKII..
Also it doesn't make sense to not include VirtualDJ digital TC signal just so that you can enforce users on a particular ecosystem. Because A) the deck can play any ordinary TC signal vinyl (this is half it's purpose) and B) it's well known for ages that VirtualDJ works exceptionally well with Serato TC vinyl / digital signal.
So, it does not make any sense to avoid including VirtualDJ signal just in order to "force" users to use Serato or Rekordbox Dj.
Also Pioneer has the "know how" to build a MIDI/HID motorized deck from DDJ-REV7. So, if they wanted to include a MIDI/HID mode, they could have done that.
Finally, while VirtualDJ is quite capable and happy to operate all 4 decks (with some small limitations) from one unit, if we want to be honest and realistic, 99% of users that are going to buy this (or any similar device) will buy a set of those at minimum.
So, I don't see the lack of MIDI/HID as a means to sell more units either.
In my honest opinion, it feels like as if they were scared to add MIDI/HID, because people would feel that this is a less "accurate" / "true" DVS solution.
PS: It's funny, but in a way the "Application" button on the device does not serve any meaningful purpose either. I mean, it DOES change which TC signal gets reproduced by the device (Rekordbox or Serato) but BOTH Rekordbox and Serato can operate with both!
My feeling for this is that this button was stuck there from the original development stage of the device, before Pioneer decided to get closer to Serato (and attempt to buy them). So they developed this as a "dual" software device, but more or less it become a "common" device for both.
At least that's what happened with Rane Twelve MKII..
Also it doesn't make sense to not include VirtualDJ digital TC signal just so that you can enforce users on a particular ecosystem. Because A) the deck can play any ordinary TC signal vinyl (this is half it's purpose) and B) it's well known for ages that VirtualDJ works exceptionally well with Serato TC vinyl / digital signal.
So, it does not make any sense to avoid including VirtualDJ signal just in order to "force" users to use Serato or Rekordbox Dj.
Also Pioneer has the "know how" to build a MIDI/HID motorized deck from DDJ-REV7. So, if they wanted to include a MIDI/HID mode, they could have done that.
Finally, while VirtualDJ is quite capable and happy to operate all 4 decks (with some small limitations) from one unit, if we want to be honest and realistic, 99% of users that are going to buy this (or any similar device) will buy a set of those at minimum.
So, I don't see the lack of MIDI/HID as a means to sell more units either.
In my honest opinion, it feels like as if they were scared to add MIDI/HID, because people would feel that this is a less "accurate" / "true" DVS solution.
PS: It's funny, but in a way the "Application" button on the device does not serve any meaningful purpose either. I mean, it DOES change which TC signal gets reproduced by the device (Rekordbox or Serato) but BOTH Rekordbox and Serato can operate with both!
My feeling for this is that this button was stuck there from the original development stage of the device, before Pioneer decided to get closer to Serato (and attempt to buy them). So they developed this as a "dual" software device, but more or less it become a "common" device for both.
Posté Mon 16 Oct 23 @ 4:14 pm
DJ VinylTouch
Thank you @Adion and @Phantomdeejay for the valuable input...I'm learning as I go along as well.
I do agree that all these problems were easily solvable, but they did choose to keep it this way...and it seems the only ppl losing out on the decisions are partners outside of their ecosystem.
With respect to this:
So I'm curious about this from a technical perspective...is this really a thing? Is it just due to the resolution of the MIDI/HID having discrete sampling intervals, while the DVS source signal is truly analog?
I ask because I don't know if I've felt that much of a difference using a rane twelve in HID mode vs a regular turntable (maybe I'm just not skilled enough to reproduce the problem).
I do agree that all these problems were easily solvable, but they did choose to keep it this way...and it seems the only ppl losing out on the decisions are partners outside of their ecosystem.
With respect to this:
Quote :
So, I don't see the lack of MIDI/HID as a means to sell more units either.
In my honest opinion, it feels like as if they were scared to add MIDI/HID, because people would feel that this is a less "accurate" / "true" DVS solution.
So, I don't see the lack of MIDI/HID as a means to sell more units either.
In my honest opinion, it feels like as if they were scared to add MIDI/HID, because people would feel that this is a less "accurate" / "true" DVS solution.
So I'm curious about this from a technical perspective...is this really a thing? Is it just due to the resolution of the MIDI/HID having discrete sampling intervals, while the DVS source signal is truly analog?
I ask because I don't know if I've felt that much of a difference using a rane twelve in HID mode vs a regular turntable (maybe I'm just not skilled enough to reproduce the problem).
Posté Mon 16 Oct 23 @ 4:35 pm
PhantomDeejay
Motorized decks got a "bad" reputation because of the small resolution they had used initially on their early stages.
Latest iterations use much higher resolution, and yes it's almost impossible now to tell the difference.
Some people claim that they "feel" the difference, but IMHO it could be either a placebo, or a quite small percentage of the total users that can really understand a difference.
So, the technology is absolutely capable to handle this accurately, and even surpass it.
I wouldn't be surprised if a future device is capable to actually offer better accuracy than "analog"..
But good luck to convince die hard vinyl users for that :P
Latest iterations use much higher resolution, and yes it's almost impossible now to tell the difference.
Some people claim that they "feel" the difference, but IMHO it could be either a placebo, or a quite small percentage of the total users that can really understand a difference.
So, the technology is absolutely capable to handle this accurately, and even surpass it.
I wouldn't be surprised if a future device is capable to actually offer better accuracy than "analog"..
But good luck to convince die hard vinyl users for that :P
Posté Mon 16 Oct 23 @ 5:35 pm
DJ VinylTouch
@PhantomDeejay your response is what I thought...it's almost indistinguishable in performance unless you are using an older device and/or know what you are looking for.
We appreciate what you guys are able to achieve given the hands you are dealt by partners 🍺
We appreciate what you guys are able to achieve given the hands you are dealt by partners 🍺
Posté Mon 16 Oct 23 @ 7:52 pm
the SOUND INSURGENT
After reading this thread, Ive changed my mind about getting them.
1 thing I didnt see anyone mention was the fact you cant even daisy chain them together like you can with the Reloop 8000's.
Pioneer is really out here thinking were all stupid or something.....
1 thing I didnt see anyone mention was the fact you cant even daisy chain them together like you can with the Reloop 8000's.
Pioneer is really out here thinking were all stupid or something.....
Posté Tue 17 Oct 23 @ 9:16 pm
kradcliffe
Well for that price Huey it really shaould have every option imaginable.
Posté Tue 17 Oct 23 @ 9:40 pm
DJ VinylTouch
In their (Pioneer's) world (Serato/Rekordbox), it does.
Imo they really would want a world where they are the only game in town (maximize profits)...depending on/hoping for a company to willingly act in good faith with/towards a perceived competitor, without (legal) enforcement is a hard sell/almost futile.
Any obvious deficiences in the hardware is prob financially motivated (eg a perceived rush to beat competitors to it or leaving space to iterate in future).
Imo they really would want a world where they are the only game in town (maximize profits)...depending on/hoping for a company to willingly act in good faith with/towards a perceived competitor, without (legal) enforcement is a hard sell/almost futile.
Any obvious deficiences in the hardware is prob financially motivated (eg a perceived rush to beat competitors to it or leaving space to iterate in future).
Posté Tue 17 Oct 23 @ 11:12 pm