Proto
As faith would have it I just had bought Final Scratch before VDJ came up with the Dvinyl solution, and I decided to keep both. My background is digital DJing only, so I am very good with VDJ and my old DMC-1, but I suck at DJing with vinyl. I have regular paid gigs 1-2 each month. The reason I want to spin with vinyal is that it is commercial much more attractive in The Netherlands.
This is my first impression:
Availability:
FS: Here in the Netherlands it is quite easy to get FS.
VDJ+: Dvinyl hardware cannot be bought in The Netherlands, but ordering it online from Germany was easy. I am a bit worried about the time coded vinyls though. Not sure whether one can buy those seperately with ease.
So this one goes to FS as I am quiet sure it will be reasonable easy to get time coded vinyls.
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Hardware
FS: It's a small disc, easy to carry with you. Yet you need off course the time code records with you.
VDJ+: It is a big machine. Worse they put the connectors on the bottem, so you cannot put it in front of the mixer. I am gonna have someone make a special casing because I want it in the upright position in front of the mixer. This is a big hassle.
FS wins this one big time. Maybe we can pressure Soundgraph in releasing a small unit without buttons. I hate carrying more with me than those gues with big record casings.
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Easy of Installation:
FS: Not extremely hard to install, yet it is quiet sensitive to the right setup for the turntables & wires and stuff.
VDJ+: Very easy, plug in and go. Seems a lot less sensitive to turntables setup and wiring.
This is a big plus in my book for VDJ+ as I do play in shabby places, and I suspect that their setup and wiring might give me problems with FS. I fear that I run into a problem that FS simply wont work some day. That is unacceptable. VDJ+ seems to work better in this case.
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Software
FS: It comes with a slim version of Traktor. I don't like Traktor (hey, I am a VDJ fan!). The normal Traktor has a big problem keeping two songs synched. Traktor for FS doesnt do that anyway you need to do it all with the turntables. But as I am not as good with those it is a bitch. If you are not good with normal records, you are not good with FS. The software is 100% dedicted to FS though which is a big plus.
VDJ+: Well VDJ is the great software we all love. It is amazing to be able to influence with vinyl. If you are serious about DJing with VDJ professionaly, you should go with Dvinyl as controller in my opinion. I have waited a long time on the XP10, was ready to buy 2 of those, but vinyl has a much bigger commercial impact. I am so happy VDJ chose to support Dvinyl.
Having said that, one can notice that Dvinyl is added to VDJ and that VDJ is not dedicated to the Dvinyl. While VDJ is very sensitive to beat mixing with the turntables (chapeaux for that!), it doesnt has needle dropping like FS (VDJ doesnt know where you are on the record). VDJ also reacts quite slowly towards changing the pitch. If the VDJ team decides that Dvinyl should get more support these two items should be on their list first.
So my choice qua software is definetely VDJ, but the main reason is that I lack the turntable skills for FS.
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Mixing.
FS: Mixing with FS is a bitch if you are not used to regular mixing with vinyl. I am sure I will learn it coming year, but for now it's frustrating.
VDJ+: I am very good with my DMC-1, but I can mix almost as good straight out of the box with Dvinyl. The main issue mixing with Dvinyl is that VDJ reacts slow to changes in the pitch. VDJ forces you to use the pitch control of the turntables in Dvinyl mode, which is excellent, but due to it lagging it is not as easy to set the pitch as it should be or is for example in FS. This affects mixing too, because by slowing or speeding the record up to beat mix, VDJ assumes you are also changing the pitch as it cannot see a difference between using the pitch control and beat mixing. As the software is not dedicated this seems to confuse VDJ: while the mixing sounds OK, the visual display is a bit of a mess which can be unnerving. For the record (no pun intended): I don't use beatlock nor would it work I guess with just the turntable.
My choice in this regard: VDJ+. It mixes easy and very good. A great way to learn to control those turntables.
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Marketing:
FS: It has a good name in the Netherlands. More and more big names in the industry work with FS. I am sure that using FS will give me a better image in the eyes of the people who book DJ's.
Dvinyl: I am sure it is totally unknown. I am gonna see how the market reacts to me saying FS like solution. Nothing wrong to use the FS name in my opinion. After all: once they see me perform, they are sold anyway.
FS has a big advantage over VDJ here.
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Support:
FS: Support with FS is slow and strange. It takes a few days to get things sorted out.
VDJ: Excellent support through the website. Extremely quick and really helping. Kudos!
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Overall: Well I am keeping both products. My main focus will be on VDJ+Dvinyl for now. Two most important reasons: I cannot mix with FS yet, and I fear it wont work everywhere I turn up. Yet I will use VDJ+Dvinyl as a great way to learn to mix with vinyl. In the mean time I will test to see how the market reacts to this product. If in time it turns out that I get enough work with VDJ+Dvinyl I will, off course, stick with it. If however the market forces me to switch to FS, in the end that's what I will do.
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Bonus: There is no point in comparing the Dvinyl as mp3 controller with FS. FS simply doesnt have buttons to press. But I found it a great bonus to find out that the Dvinyl is a great controller for VDJ without the turntables. It will most certainly replace my old DMC-1. The jogwheel is very sensitive (good job VDJ!) and loops can be set easily (also in vinyl mode btw), cue's work great. And best of all the nudge works. Even if you do not want to use vinyl, I still think the Dvinyl controller is the best controller out there for VDJ.
Proto.
P.S. I love to be booked, and can travel easily around the globe. Please visit www.djproto.com for music and bookings.
This is my first impression:
Availability:
FS: Here in the Netherlands it is quite easy to get FS.
VDJ+: Dvinyl hardware cannot be bought in The Netherlands, but ordering it online from Germany was easy. I am a bit worried about the time coded vinyls though. Not sure whether one can buy those seperately with ease.
So this one goes to FS as I am quiet sure it will be reasonable easy to get time coded vinyls.
-*-
Hardware
FS: It's a small disc, easy to carry with you. Yet you need off course the time code records with you.
VDJ+: It is a big machine. Worse they put the connectors on the bottem, so you cannot put it in front of the mixer. I am gonna have someone make a special casing because I want it in the upright position in front of the mixer. This is a big hassle.
FS wins this one big time. Maybe we can pressure Soundgraph in releasing a small unit without buttons. I hate carrying more with me than those gues with big record casings.
-*-
Easy of Installation:
FS: Not extremely hard to install, yet it is quiet sensitive to the right setup for the turntables & wires and stuff.
VDJ+: Very easy, plug in and go. Seems a lot less sensitive to turntables setup and wiring.
This is a big plus in my book for VDJ+ as I do play in shabby places, and I suspect that their setup and wiring might give me problems with FS. I fear that I run into a problem that FS simply wont work some day. That is unacceptable. VDJ+ seems to work better in this case.
-*-
Software
FS: It comes with a slim version of Traktor. I don't like Traktor (hey, I am a VDJ fan!). The normal Traktor has a big problem keeping two songs synched. Traktor for FS doesnt do that anyway you need to do it all with the turntables. But as I am not as good with those it is a bitch. If you are not good with normal records, you are not good with FS. The software is 100% dedicted to FS though which is a big plus.
VDJ+: Well VDJ is the great software we all love. It is amazing to be able to influence with vinyl. If you are serious about DJing with VDJ professionaly, you should go with Dvinyl as controller in my opinion. I have waited a long time on the XP10, was ready to buy 2 of those, but vinyl has a much bigger commercial impact. I am so happy VDJ chose to support Dvinyl.
Having said that, one can notice that Dvinyl is added to VDJ and that VDJ is not dedicated to the Dvinyl. While VDJ is very sensitive to beat mixing with the turntables (chapeaux for that!), it doesnt has needle dropping like FS (VDJ doesnt know where you are on the record). VDJ also reacts quite slowly towards changing the pitch. If the VDJ team decides that Dvinyl should get more support these two items should be on their list first.
So my choice qua software is definetely VDJ, but the main reason is that I lack the turntable skills for FS.
-*-
Mixing.
FS: Mixing with FS is a bitch if you are not used to regular mixing with vinyl. I am sure I will learn it coming year, but for now it's frustrating.
VDJ+: I am very good with my DMC-1, but I can mix almost as good straight out of the box with Dvinyl. The main issue mixing with Dvinyl is that VDJ reacts slow to changes in the pitch. VDJ forces you to use the pitch control of the turntables in Dvinyl mode, which is excellent, but due to it lagging it is not as easy to set the pitch as it should be or is for example in FS. This affects mixing too, because by slowing or speeding the record up to beat mix, VDJ assumes you are also changing the pitch as it cannot see a difference between using the pitch control and beat mixing. As the software is not dedicated this seems to confuse VDJ: while the mixing sounds OK, the visual display is a bit of a mess which can be unnerving. For the record (no pun intended): I don't use beatlock nor would it work I guess with just the turntable.
My choice in this regard: VDJ+. It mixes easy and very good. A great way to learn to control those turntables.
-*-
Marketing:
FS: It has a good name in the Netherlands. More and more big names in the industry work with FS. I am sure that using FS will give me a better image in the eyes of the people who book DJ's.
Dvinyl: I am sure it is totally unknown. I am gonna see how the market reacts to me saying FS like solution. Nothing wrong to use the FS name in my opinion. After all: once they see me perform, they are sold anyway.
FS has a big advantage over VDJ here.
-*-
Support:
FS: Support with FS is slow and strange. It takes a few days to get things sorted out.
VDJ: Excellent support through the website. Extremely quick and really helping. Kudos!
-*-
Overall: Well I am keeping both products. My main focus will be on VDJ+Dvinyl for now. Two most important reasons: I cannot mix with FS yet, and I fear it wont work everywhere I turn up. Yet I will use VDJ+Dvinyl as a great way to learn to mix with vinyl. In the mean time I will test to see how the market reacts to this product. If in time it turns out that I get enough work with VDJ+Dvinyl I will, off course, stick with it. If however the market forces me to switch to FS, in the end that's what I will do.
-*-
Bonus: There is no point in comparing the Dvinyl as mp3 controller with FS. FS simply doesnt have buttons to press. But I found it a great bonus to find out that the Dvinyl is a great controller for VDJ without the turntables. It will most certainly replace my old DMC-1. The jogwheel is very sensitive (good job VDJ!) and loops can be set easily (also in vinyl mode btw), cue's work great. And best of all the nudge works. Even if you do not want to use vinyl, I still think the Dvinyl controller is the best controller out there for VDJ.
Proto.
P.S. I love to be booked, and can travel easily around the globe. Please visit www.djproto.com for music and bookings.
Posté Mon 21 Jun 04 @ 11:25 pm
Superstom
Thanks for the post Proto.
I also noticed the problem that it is hard to get the soundgraph controller in the netherlands. I did the same as you did: buy it in Germany. Now waiting for it to be delivered.
I will post my opinion also after some testing. I am able to beat match with my sl's and also with my Denon cd players. I'm looking forward to try it with the soundgraph controller.
I have some additional advantages of the soundgraph controller above Finalscratch:
- For almost every upgrade of Finalscratch you will have to pay for an upgrade. Updates for VDJ were free from version 1.0 until now
- D-Vinyl could also be used with cd players. This could be done with finalscratch but again it's an upgrade.....
- You are also able to use VDJ with only the controller. If you haven't any space in the DJ booth, the stage you are on is to bumpy, your sl's are broke after 20 years of heavy use (no chance..) or you are too lazy to bring your sl's with you (20kg each with case!)
- The finalscratch is just a basic beat match program! No loops, no (vst) effects, no samples, no karaoke and last but not least no excellent search.
Wonder what the team is come up with next....
Ewout
I also noticed the problem that it is hard to get the soundgraph controller in the netherlands. I did the same as you did: buy it in Germany. Now waiting for it to be delivered.
I will post my opinion also after some testing. I am able to beat match with my sl's and also with my Denon cd players. I'm looking forward to try it with the soundgraph controller.
I have some additional advantages of the soundgraph controller above Finalscratch:
- For almost every upgrade of Finalscratch you will have to pay for an upgrade. Updates for VDJ were free from version 1.0 until now
- D-Vinyl could also be used with cd players. This could be done with finalscratch but again it's an upgrade.....
- You are also able to use VDJ with only the controller. If you haven't any space in the DJ booth, the stage you are on is to bumpy, your sl's are broke after 20 years of heavy use (no chance..) or you are too lazy to bring your sl's with you (20kg each with case!)
- The finalscratch is just a basic beat match program! No loops, no (vst) effects, no samples, no karaoke and last but not least no excellent search.
Wonder what the team is come up with next....
Ewout
Posté Tue 22 Jun 04 @ 6:59 pm
erxon
After reading this, D-Vinyl really doesn't sound like a good solution (at the moment). I mean, minimum latency is crucial for everything, not just beat matching (despite the bpm display, I always check with my ear), but for every single thing you do with your turntable - scratching, cueing, ...
Hopefully VDJ team is planning on resolving this issue and providing a better support for this hardware. I know it's still a first version with DVinyl compatibility, so i hope that this feedback from Proto will make a change in next release.
Or/and of course support the FS device as mentioning many times now...
I'm really looking forward to see what kind of surprises is the team prepairing for us (hopefully, usefull ones :)
Regards, erXon
Hopefully VDJ team is planning on resolving this issue and providing a better support for this hardware. I know it's still a first version with DVinyl compatibility, so i hope that this feedback from Proto will make a change in next release.
Or/and of course support the FS device as mentioning many times now...
I'm really looking forward to see what kind of surprises is the team prepairing for us (hopefully, usefull ones :)
Regards, erXon
Posté Tue 22 Jun 04 @ 8:59 pm
Proto
I think you misunderstood my post. Dvinyl has low latency when it comes to beat mixing and scratching as in almost zero.
The only problem is when you use the pitch controller on the turntable. That change takes more than a second to be recognised by VDJ.
Proto
The only problem is when you use the pitch controller on the turntable. That change takes more than a second to be recognised by VDJ.
Proto
Posté Thu 24 Jun 04 @ 10:52 am
erxon
I guess I did. :) Ok, so ther's "only" one problem. But still, it's sometimes easier to correct the beat off with the pitch controller, than with hand so, the latency here should also be reduced.
Posté Thu 24 Jun 04 @ 3:25 pm
Superstom
Erxon,
what you have to keep in mind is that this functionality is just new in VDJ. Finalscratch is out for 2 years already. I have spoken with some dj's who own(ed) FS. What I always hear is that it is hard to set up. Much ground loop problems and other problems even get it running. Just look at the FS forum for example. Lots of people are returning FS while having too much problems.
As you know the VDJ team will fix all problems in the future, like they did from version 1.0.
I think that the change that FS will become available for VDJ is small. FS works with Traktor. In my opinion the VDJ software is much more usefull. Traktor and Staton made a deal already and Traktor will not give up this explusive position.
So I'm happy that I just ordered the Soundgraph package. I will post my test results after I received the unit.
Ewout
what you have to keep in mind is that this functionality is just new in VDJ. Finalscratch is out for 2 years already. I have spoken with some dj's who own(ed) FS. What I always hear is that it is hard to set up. Much ground loop problems and other problems even get it running. Just look at the FS forum for example. Lots of people are returning FS while having too much problems.
As you know the VDJ team will fix all problems in the future, like they did from version 1.0.
I think that the change that FS will become available for VDJ is small. FS works with Traktor. In my opinion the VDJ software is much more usefull. Traktor and Staton made a deal already and Traktor will not give up this explusive position.
So I'm happy that I just ordered the Soundgraph package. I will post my test results after I received the unit.
Ewout
Posté Thu 24 Jun 04 @ 9:26 pm
Proto
I agree. Hopefully it will be solved soon, then it will be perfect!
And indeed I own both Final Scratch and Dvinyl and if I had to chose which package to bring with me on a gig, I choose Dvinyl over FS any time. It is much more reliable.
But for marketing myself as DJ: FS is better. If the venue takes responsibility for getting FS to work, FS becomes first choice even though VDJ is much better software and Dvinyl more reliable.
Proto
And indeed I own both Final Scratch and Dvinyl and if I had to chose which package to bring with me on a gig, I choose Dvinyl over FS any time. It is much more reliable.
But for marketing myself as DJ: FS is better. If the venue takes responsibility for getting FS to work, FS becomes first choice even though VDJ is much better software and Dvinyl more reliable.
Proto
Posté Sun 27 Jun 04 @ 10:06 am