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Sujet: Sold MK2, Total Control next? - Page: 1

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Ok so I sold my HDJC MK2, I finally feel the need to go for something better.

I know many have been excited with the number of controllers hitting the market of late, but personally I have to say that most of them didn't get a second look from me.

As a DJ who plays in clubs (DJ booths which have little space) my options in terms of professional midi controllers are restricted, I've already ruled out using timecode for reasons of set-up, and the fact that it's untrue that "most clubs have CDJ-1000's installed" because they don't in my area, many places use rack mount CD players (which in timecode mode would be a waste of time).

Most of the controllers I see today are either professional, but too large to take into a club (Pioneers CDJ-400, and the new players/controllers from Stanton, Numark & Denon). Or they are small but of low quality, or just look completely whack like the Xponent and the new arrival from EKS.

So in terms of viable (mobile) club options, I have to consider the following options:

* Numark Total Control w/ external mixer & soundcard (maybe DJ I/O)
* 2x XP10 (already have one) w/external mixer
* Vestax VCI-100 w/ external mixer & soundcard (maybe DJ I/O)

Numark Total Control:

I've never tried it, But looking at it closer I'm quite impressed, my main concern is the jog wheel sensitivity (in VDJ), they look around the same size as those on the MK2, and the sensitivity in VDJ was ridiculous by default, you only had to touch them and you were virtually off beat, so for this reason I had to use the pitch bend buttons.

How sensitive are the jog wheels compared to the MK2? (in VDJ).
How accurate are the pitch sliders? they look fairly short.
Quality of the buttons? compared to MK2 & XP10.

Second XP10:

What I like:

* Relatively large, touch-sensitive jog wheels
* Outer rim has perfect sensitivity for Syncing (Just like CDJ-800/1000)
* Long Pitch slider for accurate adjustments
* Decent soundcard

What I dislike:

* Clicking buttons (don't feel good)
* Buttons labelled to suite Bison DJ software (no biggy)
* Bad ASIO drivers (another one bites the dust)
* A bit pricey considering the button quality (but I already have one)

Also, my existing XP10 cuts out after one hour of usage (soundcard), as if it was disconnected, this is probably due to me not using a USB hub, I will test this and see before making a decision.


Vestax VCI-100:

Although I like the look of the Vestax, I've already set my heart on the VCI-300 (onboard soundcard, larger jogs and black), so I think investing in the 100 would be a mistake for me, but I need a solution today (and the 300 isn't due out until the summer).


Anyone who's experienced with using all or some of these controllers, please help me decide! Thanks ;).


 
Posté Sat 26 Jan 08 @ 6:00 am
Bagpuss wrote :


What I dislike:

* Clicking buttons (don't feel good)





sorry to tell but total control has alot of them
 
 
DJ off the keyboard and the mouse like one of theses new computer geeks/DJs for a couple of months and then get either the herk rmx or the 300.
 
 
About the new Hercules,

I haven’t ruled it out completely, it looks ok for the money.

First impressions, I have to say that the Hercules write up on their website is truly laughable and clearly aimed at the novice DJ (which makes me question the quality of the unit).

Looking at the console, I find it an odd choice to place the master volume as a slider in-between the channel faders, it’s just as strange how they’ve spread out the master controls and not put them in their own section.

Looking at the Headphone and Microphone inputs, it’s obvious to see that the cables are going to be hanging over the unit to some degree, which is not good.

Overall the unit seems a bit pretentious (and yes that is the word I want to use), the buttons look a bit “switchy” and I have trouble taking it seriously.

@gluzantzas

You mean they are low quality buttons? Feel cheap?
 
The buttons are responsive on the tc but are plastic and make a small click when pressed.

The unit featured on the website is still a prototype for the rmx and it may be improved before the release.
 
you should love clicking buttons, it means inside is a real microcontact designed to do the job well, not like the herc's plastic covered with carbon film exposed to corosion and slime, I paid another $100 to have my old hercs modified for the pause play with microcontacts.

you will find the same clicking in the dmc 2, so here is an idea numark cm200usb $200 plus numark dmc2 $300 (prices for new items on ebay plus shipping)
they loook pro and are designed to work with vdj plus are rack mountable
 
Djlex,

It's not the "clicking" that I mean, it's the way the XP10 buttons feel, they just aren't that solid (even compared to the lower quality herc buttons, I don't find them comfortable).

@ Total control users:

What can you tell me about the Jog wheel sensitivity, Pitch accuracy etc in VDJ?
 
cool useful topic

what yer booths ain't spacious space age bachelor pads ??? no one available to shine up the star on the door ??

i think get another xp10 unless space is really that tight , otherwise the total control , but , i don't have one ( but may soon )

i also am interested in professional grade stuff , but not compromise the quality of any of my equipment due to space limitations ,the whole topic is challenging .....
 
Bagpuss wrote :
many places use rack mount CD players (which in timecode mode would be a waste of time).



explain this... ? ? ?



How is using a rackmount CD player compared to a turntable style cd player for timecode a waste of time?

Most DJ booths I have seen have turntables. Why not use TCV? That is my personal preference.

If you are mixing video and don't have the option to use a crossfader on an existing dj booths mixer then use a keyboard shortcut to crossfade.

Why spend money on a controller that you may or may not like and may not have room for on the various DJ booth situations you come across.


My personal thing is to be able to go into any situation and adapt to what tools are available to me to from whatever DJ booth I am in.
Ultimately I would bring my own mixer (Ecler Nuo4) and use turntables. But if I can't then keyboard shortcuts it is for any of the features I can't access via mixer or control surface. If it isn't a regular gig then grin and bare it for that one night. If it is regular then discuss with the owners to add the necessary equipment to make your show possible.

I couldn't see how experimenting with new gear is going to help with doing club gigs. Another thing to consider depending on the market you're in, club owners/managers/promoters/other dj's won't take a dj serious if you come in pushing buttons at a club instead of using tc.

Now for mobile DJ-ing doing wedding, etc. I think the controllers are the best solution for portability and function.


I am old school so vinyl is where my heart is. :-)
 
low-fat-al wrote :
Bagpuss wrote :
many places use rack mount CD players (which in timecode mode would be a waste of time).



explain this... ? ? ?



How is using a rackmount CD player compared to a turntable style cd player for timecode a waste of time?

Most DJ booths I have seen have turntables. Why not use TCV? That is my personal preference.

If you are mixing video and don't have the option to use a crossfader on an existing dj booths mixer then use a keyboard shortcut to crossfade.

Why spend money on a controller that you may or may not like and may not have room for on the various DJ booth situations you come across.


My personal thing is to be able to go into any situation and adapt to what tools are available to me to from whatever DJ booth I am in.
Ultimately I would bring my own mixer (Ecler Nuo4) and use turntables. But if I can't then keyboard shortcuts it is for any of the features I can't access via mixer or control surface. If it isn't a regular gig then grin and bare it for that one night. If it is regular then discuss with the owners to add the necessary equipment to make your show possible.

I couldn't see how experimenting with new gear is going to help with doing club gigs. Another thing to consider depending on the market you're in, club owners/managers/promoters/other dj's won't take a dj serious if you come in pushing buttons at a club instead of using tc.

Now for mobile DJ-ing doing wedding, etc. I think the controllers are the best solution for portability and function.


I am old school so vinyl is where my heart is. :-)



Well we are slowly killing off your kind, more and more are indulging in the dark side of direct software control, rather than a pretentious vinyl DJ image (when MOST don't need/want to scratch), personally I think controllers will become just as common as turntables in the club environment with just a little more time (captain).

I've rocked 2000 with my MK2 with no complaints, I could do everything I wanted to do, but now I want something of better quality (feel etc).

The reason why rack mounted CD players would not be useful to me in timecode mode, well they don't do a lot do they (CD players in timecode), especially as most don't have touch sensitive wheels, I just think a small, but direct controller provides more power and joy :).

I'm new school, got digital roots :).
 
believe me.. I am new & old school.

I embrace new technology when it is there and useful to what I do as a craft.
I love the new breed of controllers out there. I just know from working here in las vegas DJ's who generally use controllers instead of turntables in nightclubs are not taken serious. You can do the same things and better using a turntable. It isn't just for scratching. The only things that are lacking are the extra buttons for features like cue points, loops, etc. That is why I use my Ecler mixer for. If I can't use it because of the venue's set up then I just go with keyboard shortcuts. The control over the song/video using timecode is key here though. I can quickly get a song in tempo or re-cued better than using a controller. Also... people in a club like to see a DJ actually using turntables instead of a controller. It actually looks like they are doing something. ... and like I said.. I have nothing against controllers. I just know that it is not widely accepted in the general nightclub industry as a standard item in a booth. You are more likely to see turntables or pioneer CDJ/DVJ's.

If mobile gigs is your thing (which I have a mobile set up with a DAC-3 in it) then controllers make sense. But nightclubs are different.... or at least here in Las Vegas.
 
I have not really scanned the rmx but from a glance there is no balanced inputs no booth or zone and the master fader is in the middle i thought it was a 3rd channel for a turntable etc.
 
Bagpuss, Why dont you buy my xone 3d off me?
 
if you are looking for a good rackmount scratching cd, there is the american audio velocity or velocity mp3
 
The jog wheels have a "scratch" and a "jog wheel" mode. In jog wheel mode, they are quite good for pitch bend, I use them often that way. They are worthless for scratching, but it doesn't sound like you are into scratching anyway.

I find the pitch sliders to be a pain. They are not all that accurate, and once you have adjusted them from the center position, you CAN NOT adjust them back to 0% center. If you want your track back to 0%, you will have to use your mouse and press that centering button. After doing that, you will have to wiggle your pitch slider a lot to get it to activate again, and make sure you do that while that deck is not "live", or you will get a crazy pitch adjustment when you do.

The pitch sliders are my only real big beef, and I wind up editting more of my files for proper BPM info anyway, so I will generally just sync, press play on the 1st beat where I want it, and do some pitch bending with the jog wheel as needed. If it's not perfect, as in if it's a new file, then I'll deal with the pitch sliders, but I am not a fan of the pitch sliders.

The housing is plastic. It's durable plastic, it isn't going to flex if you press on it...LOL... but I wouldn't drop it more than 2 feet. The buttons are solid and reliable. The jog wheels have a very good feel to them. You do have to be careful not to touch them accidentally, and make sure you are in jog wheel mode when you are not cueing. I actually find scratch mode useful for cueing up a track quickly, but crap, if you leave it that way, and then accidently bump it while that deck is live... your screwed...LOL. I think the Xponent moved the Jog wheels to the back for this very reason. I don't know if that's better or not, I haven't had my hands on a Xponent.

The Numark Total Control is better, in my opinion that the Hercules MKII. It's layed out better, less cramped, buttons feel good, jog wheels have a good feel, you can do a good spinback with the job wheels if you like to do that :) You won't bump the jog wheels while moving the crossfader, I NEVER have, so that is certainly better vs. Hercules. I don't know what the pitch sliders are like on the Hercules, so I don't know if they are better or worse, but I don't really like to use them on the NTC. I'm probably about as likely to use the pitch sliders on the screen. If it would center correctly, I'd probably like them better.

Really though, the VCI-300 is going to be a load better for you. It's going to look better, have a built in sound card, better quality faders/sliders, metal housing, just better all the way around. If you can spend that kind of money, I'd do some good shortcuts on your keyboard and make due that way for now, until the VCI-300 is out. The Numark Total Control will be a better than the Hercules, but you're going to have to get a sound card with it, and the pitch sliders are not all that great. The VCI-300 looks to be A LOT BETTER.

Hopefully that helps :)
 
Thanks for that, very helpful feedback.

Although I don't consider it good news.., as after the quality of the jog wheel, the pitch slider is the most important for me. If it's not accurate or worse as you described it "unresponsive" then it almost rules out this controller for me. Unless the pitch function can be mapped to a knob? (like on the MK2), the "gain" knob would be ideal for this as I intend to use it in conjunction with a mixer.
 
Bagpuss wrote :
Thanks for that, very helpful feedback.

Although I don't consider it good news.., as after the quality of the jog wheel, the pitch slider is the most important for me. If it's not accurate or worse as you described it "unresponsive" then it almost rules out this controller for me. Unless the pitch function can be mapped to a knob? (like on the MK2), the "gain" knob would be ideal for this as I intend to use it in conjunction with a mixer.



I have the NTC and the Mk2

I believe the problem is with the native mapper built into VDJ, i can't understand why you need to make drastic pitch slider movements on the NTC for VDJ to acknowledge it, but not on the mik2. Once VDJ has acknowldged it, the pitch slider works fine on the NTC, it almost like the NTC has to get VDJ's attention before it will work properley

I'm not sure if you can remap controls on the NTC, i'm sure i've read on this forum that you can't (but i could be wrong), i will check this evening and report back to you.

Another strange thing is that when using the NTC, VDJ's GUI in terms of slider and knob animations seems to lag. You can cross fade from left to right on your NTC and the slider on the GUI is noticeably behind (by maybe one fifth of a second), the audio isn't, it reacts perfectly to to the fader on the NTC. All other elements of teh GUI work fine, the waveforms etc, just the Knob and Fader animations. Again this doiesn't happen when using the Mk2.

Would love for the Pitch slider issue to be fixed.


 
Forgot to say...

Ultimately, the NTC is much nicer to use as a controller than the MK2, much more spacious, feels much more natural and unihibated.

The Jog dials are better than the mk2. Not complaints at all there. All faders are much looser (less friction) than the MK2, whether this is good or not just depends on your personall preference i guess.

The only real gripe i have with th NTC is the pitch slider issue, howver as i said earlier, i think this is due to the native mapper not because of the unit itself.



 
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