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Forum: General Discussion

Sujet: Electrical hum - Page: 2

Cette partie de ce topic est ancien et peut contenir des informations obselètes ou incorrectes

Heh, true that, even doctors still prescribe Lithium to patients. Oh well, I'll keep setting the record straight when I see it..lol;^]
 
Coming from a formerly licensed electrician, a former audio/visual technician and present IT system analyst and network administrator, each of these being ME, it will not hurt your laptop to break the ground prong off.
Most all electronics today only have 2 prongs, positive and neutral. The neutral is the ground, grounded all the way back to the powerplant or sub-staion. If a $2900 Audio/Video reciever can run on a two pronged cord, then your laptop can. If your Tivo or Dish Network DVR can run on a two prong cord, so can your laptop.
With that being said, go buy the adapter from a hardware store and use it to eliminate the buzz. Using this adapter is the same as breaking off the third prong. Everytime I've come across audio noise on a laptop removing the ground has remedied the issue, unless, of course, it was the sound card.
Just thought I would mention this since I see folks acting like it is doom and gloom if you remove the third prong, IT IS NOT.

THIS IS U.S. ONLY, I don't know anything about the power in Europe.
 
TDBennett wrote :
Coming from a formerly licensed electrician, a former audio/visual technician and present IT system analyst and network administrator, each of these being ME, it will not hurt your laptop to break the ground prong off.
Most all electronics today only have 2 prongs, positive and neutral. The neutral is the ground, grounded all the way back to the powerplant or sub-staion. If a $2900 Audio/Video reciever can run on a two pronged cord, then your laptop can. If your Tivo or Dish Network DVR can run on a two prong cord, so can your laptop.
With that being said, go buy the adapter from a hardware store and use it to eliminate the buzz. Using this adapter is the same as breaking off the third prong. Everytime I've come across audio noise on a laptop removing the ground has remedied the issue, unless, of course, it was the sound card.
Just thought I would mention this since I see folks acting like it is doom and gloom if you remove the third prong, IT IS NOT.

THIS IS U.S. ONLY, I don't know anything about the power in Europe.


So which is it? Is the purchase of a ground loop isolater a waste of money? I just looked at my laptop's power supply (Toshiba) and it is a two part item with a 3 pin plug that plugs into the transformer (via C5 Cloverleaf connector) which then plugs into the laptop. So if I swop the 3 pin lead with a two pin one, is this safe?

I don't know about the U.S but the only one I could find on the internet says this is ok for Europe BUT NOT for the UK (www.cable-trader.co.uk/item.php?iid=454).

I reckon it is a C5 connection ('cloverleaf' - plus earth) for a reason but have seen laptops with C7 ('figure 8' - minus earth) as well so am confused.

Note that I am talking about replacing the lead and not breaking off any bits. I want to do it in a safe way. Any Europeon or UK electricians about?
 
My father is a masters electrician & he says the same thing as me, by removing the ground pin you are putting yourself at risk for eletricution, under no circumstances should you do this. Imagine if you removed the grounding post from a lightening rod, it's begging for trouble & that's a fact. As I said, to get rid of noise use ground loop isolators (it's what they're made for), if it's a matter of fitting into a double prong outlet use the adapter, but NEVER attempt to remove the grounding pin. And by the way, most double prong adapters safely dishcharge the ground pin current, it is not the same as removing the ground pin;^]
 
I just don,t get all this talk about interefering with plugs etc.
The answer is simple , just purchase 2 ground loop isolators ( one for each channel ) to go between the line out and amp.
I have used these for years and they work fine without any loss of sound quality.
To prove that any humming noise is caused by an earth loop fault , just run a temporary connection between the earth and any metal part of the laptop ie. the usb metal frame, and the hum will stop.
I stress do not leave this wire as a permanent fix , otherwise in an event of a lightning strike your laptop will fry,
this is the main reason why a lot of electronic equipment are double insulated ( not earthed )
 
The risk in removing the ground pin is having current without proper dishcharge, an adapter safely discharges that current into it's rubber casing. The risk is enough to warrant the caution which is expressed on this site. At the end of the day, there is no reason to remove the ground pin and plenty of reason not too;^]
 
if the discharged current is so small that the little bit of rubber housing is all you need for safety, then it shouldn't be that much to hurt anything.
by code you shouldn't do it, in real life, it won't hurt ya. there is a big divide between code and what can work safely.
 
Physical reaction to electrical current varies based on the person, it's enough current to pose a danger. You'd be surpised how little rubber is needed to insulate an electrical discharge. But again, no reason to do it but plenty of reason not too;^]
 
I agree with TDBennett: "by code you shouldn't do it, in real life, it won't hurt ya".

I think the ground matters if you are using cutting tools. I visit my friends and family in Brooklyn NY for over 20 years. They live in tall building apartments where their electrical wirings are old -still with only 2 prong outlets. Nobody bothers with the monumental task of converting the electric system to 3 prongs –especially in Brooklyn.

They all used 3 to 2 prong adapters, power strips with the ground broken off. They have big and expensive electronic equipment. Not once, they have an electrical related problem. Equipment still works fine until becomes naturally defective. Everybody just gets older. Most tragic fire stories in Brooklyn are about some dude who falls asleep on the couch with a cigarette in his mouth.

Again, "By code, no. In real life, it’s fine".

-wheel
 
TDBennett wrote :
if the discharged current is so small that the little bit of rubber housing is all you need for safety, then it shouldn't be that much to hurt anything.
by code you shouldn't do it, in real life, it won't hurt ya. there is a big divide between code and what can work safely.


This is the wrong attitude to take, sorry TD..all it takes is one volt of current to cross your heart at the wrong time and cause an arrhythmia and we're talking to your family saying how sorry we are. I am an electronics repair technician during the day, my father was a union electrician. I have seen people die from messing with voltage thinking they could beat the odds....[color=red]DO NOT TAKE ANY CHANCES WITH ELECTRICITY!!!!!
 
I totally agree with TearEmUp...

Just dun mess up with electricity whether it's minimum or maximum scenario.
 
If you break the ground pin off it leaves the ground wire inside the rubber casing of the plug.
If you use the 2 prong adapter the ground ends inside the rubber casing..... SAME THING.

Definitely respect electricity, but the removal of a ground pin is such a small thing.

Say you do have the ground pin and the electrical outlet accepts the ground pin but there is no ground wire on the back side of the recepticle?
You are not grounded just the same as if you broke the pin off. Chances are you didn't do the electrical work at the joint you are working in. I bet a quarter of the places we all play are grounded improperly.

Making a way bigger deal out of a ground pin than it deserves.
If it mattered that much EVERYTHING would have 3 pins.
 
I can't believe there is such a discussion on this matter. If there is a hum in the system and you know what the problem and solution is. Then the correct and moral thing to do is give the correct moral solution and not a quick unethical thing you (the individual) would do. Why promote such a thing that can be easily resolved with a couple dollars spent.
 
Unethical and immoral? LOL That's a stretch.

If you have to have a grounding pin then why doesn't your home cd player have one?
Why doesn't your toaster have one?
Why doesn't your A/V receiver have one?
My current rig PC doesn't have one(it came that way, I didn't break it off).
My previous rig laptop had a third pin and I got a ground buzz when I used it with my gear, I broke it off and the noise quit.
The laptop lives on as do I.
If you're scared waste your money on the ground loop isolators, if you got some nuts break the ground pin off and spend the money you saved on beer. Or put the savings towards your life insurance since you will die soon of electric shock... NOT!
To each his own, I just tried to give a quick, simple, cheap, and SAFE solution to a simple problem. It will work and you won't get hurt and your gear will survive as well.



 
Some devices were designed to operate without a ground. The ground adapter has a tab which is to be screwed to the wall via the faceplate screw, which in turn makes contact with the electrical box, which in turn is connected to the entire circuit which is grounded! Enough TD...there is tons and tons of proof and loads of material which proves you wrong...please stop encouraging an unsafe practice......Fat is correct it is unethical and in some places illegal.
 
what ever.
I've seen it work again and again with no issues, ever. And like I said before, just because you have the pin in place you may still not be grounded. Just because you don't subscribe to the solution does not make it invalid.
 
TDBennett wrote :
Just because you don't subscribe to the solution does not make it invalid.



Have you ever seen a person die from it?? I have! Have you ever smelled the air after a person was electrocuted?? I Have! Have you ever sat through several hours of questioning from O.S.H.A. officials asking if anyone tried to warn/stop this practice? I Have! It makes it un-safe...that makes it valid.......
 
TearEmUp wrote :
TDBennett wrote :
Just because you don't subscribe to the solution does not make it invalid.



Have you ever seen a person die from it?? I have! Have you ever smelled the air after a person was electrocuted?? I Have! ......


I have too Terry, it's bloody awful.

 
The smell is awful, I worked with a guy who was not killed but burnt badly. Very disturbing experience, I do have a great respect for electricity.
This happened from removing a ground prong? If so this is the first I have ever heard of such an accident.



 
One time I touched my private parts, and got a little shock, and liked it. So now, I tell my girl to run on the carpet, with socks and touch my private parts. Easy gentlemen, I know we can fight about some other stuff. As a matter of fact, didn't we already have this fight before?
 
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