Real_VDJ
Hello all
I have been experimenting with timecode CD's on Virtual DJ for the last couple of days. Everything works fine, except I noticed that the pitch doesn't always seem to correspond with my CD-players pitch.
For instance, when my CD-players play at +4,5%, in VirtualDJ it says +4,9% (or the other way around, I'll have to check when I get home). When I play tracks at +10,0%, in VirtualDJ it says +10,4%. I think the biggest difference I've noticed is around 0,6%.
However, when I play at 0,00% it seems to be correct in VDJ too. The pitch looks to be very stable, it doesn't go up or down as far as I can tell. Beatmatching is not a problem, I'm just wondering where this difference is coming from.
Is this maybe just a visual difference? Maybe the sound DOES play at the same pitch as the CD-players?
Can anyone with timecode CD's check this and let me know if they have the same experience as me?
My setup:
Pioneer CDJ800's
Virtual DJ timecode (Pro version)
Maya44USB
Timecode settings are all fine (signal quality 100%, the signal gives a nice circle)
Auto BPM match setting is turned off
I used to use DJDecks before, the pitch was always EXACTLY the same on my CD-players and in the program. So my CD-players are probably not to blame.
Thanks!
I have been experimenting with timecode CD's on Virtual DJ for the last couple of days. Everything works fine, except I noticed that the pitch doesn't always seem to correspond with my CD-players pitch.
For instance, when my CD-players play at +4,5%, in VirtualDJ it says +4,9% (or the other way around, I'll have to check when I get home). When I play tracks at +10,0%, in VirtualDJ it says +10,4%. I think the biggest difference I've noticed is around 0,6%.
However, when I play at 0,00% it seems to be correct in VDJ too. The pitch looks to be very stable, it doesn't go up or down as far as I can tell. Beatmatching is not a problem, I'm just wondering where this difference is coming from.
Is this maybe just a visual difference? Maybe the sound DOES play at the same pitch as the CD-players?
Can anyone with timecode CD's check this and let me know if they have the same experience as me?
My setup:
Pioneer CDJ800's
Virtual DJ timecode (Pro version)
Maya44USB
Timecode settings are all fine (signal quality 100%, the signal gives a nice circle)
Auto BPM match setting is turned off
I used to use DJDecks before, the pitch was always EXACTLY the same on my CD-players and in the program. So my CD-players are probably not to blame.
Thanks!
Posté Wed 30 Aug 17 @ 11:06 am
the SOUND INSURGENT
Well 4.5 and 4.9 pretty much both equal 5 (if we round up)
10 and 10.4 are pretty much 10 (if you just round down)
I wouldn't think 0.4 would mess up a mix and yes I use timecodes as well but it's never really been a problem.
Maybe someone from the team will chime in but I wouldn't stress on it to much unless it's a full % above/below what the actual track is...
10 and 10.4 are pretty much 10 (if you just round down)
I wouldn't think 0.4 would mess up a mix and yes I use timecodes as well but it's never really been a problem.
Maybe someone from the team will chime in but I wouldn't stress on it to much unless it's a full % above/below what the actual track is...
Posté Wed 30 Aug 17 @ 1:06 pm
Adion
0.4% difference is a lot actually, and would quickly screw up a beat-mix
But it sounds like it is actually stable, so perhaps there's something else causing it to be slightly off.
Note that in vdj you can still move the pitch slider on screen and after that the pitch slider on your cdj's would be relative to the on-screen pitch slider.
So to make sure the starting point is right, try to put the pitch slider on the cdj's at 0%, and then press the pitch reset button on the screen to make sure vdj is at 0% as well.
Now when you move the pitch slider of the cdj's, vdj should catch up and show the same value.
But it sounds like it is actually stable, so perhaps there's something else causing it to be slightly off.
Note that in vdj you can still move the pitch slider on screen and after that the pitch slider on your cdj's would be relative to the on-screen pitch slider.
So to make sure the starting point is right, try to put the pitch slider on the cdj's at 0%, and then press the pitch reset button on the screen to make sure vdj is at 0% as well.
Now when you move the pitch slider of the cdj's, vdj should catch up and show the same value.
Posté Wed 30 Aug 17 @ 5:16 pm
groovindj
The pitch % on the CDJ-800 is 10% or wide (from web pics), so if VDJ's pitch % was set to something other than 10% there would be a difference displayed, would there not? To read the same, surely VDJ's pitch needs to be at 10% too.
Posté Wed 30 Aug 17 @ 5:32 pm
Adion
No, timecode pitch is just read as is (vdj can't know what range the pitch slider on your cd players or turntables is set to)
Posté Wed 30 Aug 17 @ 6:06 pm
the SOUND INSURGENT
Adion wrote :
0.4% difference is a lot actually, and would quickly screw up a beat-mix
But it sounds like it is actually stable, so perhaps there's something else causing it to be slightly off.
Note that in vdj you can still move the pitch slider on screen and after that the pitch slider on your cdj's would be relative to the on-screen pitch slider.
So to make sure the starting point is right, try to put the pitch slider on the cdj's at 0%, and then press the pitch reset button on the screen to make sure vdj is at 0% as well.
Now when you move the pitch slider of the cdj's, vdj should catch up and show the same value.
But it sounds like it is actually stable, so perhaps there's something else causing it to be slightly off.
Note that in vdj you can still move the pitch slider on screen and after that the pitch slider on your cdj's would be relative to the on-screen pitch slider.
So to make sure the starting point is right, try to put the pitch slider on the cdj's at 0%, and then press the pitch reset button on the screen to make sure vdj is at 0% as well.
Now when you move the pitch slider of the cdj's, vdj should catch up and show the same value.
Well for a guy who uses turntables that's nothing to worry about and I can honestly say the pitch has never matched my BPM on ANY version of VDJ.
Posté Wed 30 Aug 17 @ 6:51 pm
Real_VDJ
Thanks for all your replies.
I did some more testing.
- Pitch 0% on CDJ + reset pitch in VirtualDJ to 0% - doesn't help
- Used a different soundcard (Hercules DJ RMX) - doesn't help
- Different laptop - doesn't help
- The problem seems worst when I play my timecode at around 6,50%, my Virtual DJ always reads it as 6,00%. And 10,0% is always 10,4%. Etc etc... The pitch is actually very stable that way, I always get the same numbers.
- Re-tested my DJDecks setup (with DJDecks timecode CD's) - pitch is PERFECTLY in line with my CD-player, so my Pioneer CDJ is also not to blame (6,50% is exactly 6,50% in DJDecks)
- By the way, my timecode config in VirtualDJ says "VirtualDJ7 CD", when I select "VirtualDJ8 CD" it doesn't work. Is this normal? I downloaded my timecode mp3 last week from your website.
Random question: would a different brand of CDR make a difference? Or burning the mp3 at a different speed? I'm just guessing here, I don't have any other ideas...
On a sidenote: it's not a HUGE problem, I can mix fine this way. But it just bothers me that an old discontinued product like DJDecks works perfectly with timecodes (thanks Adion, it's still an amazing program), and I can't seem to get this right with VirtualDJ.
Does anybody still use timecode CD's out there? Would you mind testing this?
I did some more testing.
- Pitch 0% on CDJ + reset pitch in VirtualDJ to 0% - doesn't help
- Used a different soundcard (Hercules DJ RMX) - doesn't help
- Different laptop - doesn't help
- The problem seems worst when I play my timecode at around 6,50%, my Virtual DJ always reads it as 6,00%. And 10,0% is always 10,4%. Etc etc... The pitch is actually very stable that way, I always get the same numbers.
- Re-tested my DJDecks setup (with DJDecks timecode CD's) - pitch is PERFECTLY in line with my CD-player, so my Pioneer CDJ is also not to blame (6,50% is exactly 6,50% in DJDecks)
- By the way, my timecode config in VirtualDJ says "VirtualDJ7 CD", when I select "VirtualDJ8 CD" it doesn't work. Is this normal? I downloaded my timecode mp3 last week from your website.
Random question: would a different brand of CDR make a difference? Or burning the mp3 at a different speed? I'm just guessing here, I don't have any other ideas...
On a sidenote: it's not a HUGE problem, I can mix fine this way. But it just bothers me that an old discontinued product like DJDecks works perfectly with timecodes (thanks Adion, it's still an amazing program), and I can't seem to get this right with VirtualDJ.
Does anybody still use timecode CD's out there? Would you mind testing this?
Posté Wed 30 Aug 17 @ 6:59 pm
Adion
Can you try if it makes any difference using VirtualDJ8 cd timecode?
You can download it here:
http://www.virtualdj.com/files/timecode_vdj8cd.flac
http://www.virtualdj.com/files/timecode_vdj8cd.mp3
You can download it here:
http://www.virtualdj.com/files/timecode_vdj8cd.flac
http://www.virtualdj.com/files/timecode_vdj8cd.mp3
Posté Wed 30 Aug 17 @ 7:20 pm
Real_VDJ
Interesting sidenote, I just used my backup laptop to play the timecode mp3 (using VirtualDJ). I sent the output directly to my Maya44 soundcard. When I change the pitch on the backup laptop, the pitch being picked up by my main laptop also doesn't correspond, so I have the exact same problem.
@ Adion: it says you have to approve my permission to access the file.
@ Adion: it says you have to approve my permission to access the file.
Posté Wed 30 Aug 17 @ 7:21 pm
the SOUND INSURGENT
And I do get the same thing here on my end as well, when I select timecodes config it always says I'm using the 7 timecodes when I have bought the new v8 albums and I've downloaded the new v8 tone for CDs.
Posté Wed 30 Aug 17 @ 7:37 pm
Support staff
@Real_VDJ
Updated download links for the timecode files above
Updated download links for the timecode files above
Posté Wed 30 Aug 17 @ 7:50 pm
Real_VDJ
I just tested the VDJ8 CD timecodes, but it looks like they have more or less the same problem. I even have the feeling it's WORSE with this timecode.
To be more specific for the VDJ8 CD: the pitch behaves OK, except between (more or less) +3,50% and +6,50%. It really behaves strangely in this range. The same goes for the negative range (-3,50% to -6,50%). At 0% and 10% it's perfectly accurate again. I'm confused.
Would a video help? I just tried to record one, but it seems to be difficult with my laptop screen.
To be more specific for the VDJ8 CD: the pitch behaves OK, except between (more or less) +3,50% and +6,50%. It really behaves strangely in this range. The same goes for the negative range (-3,50% to -6,50%). At 0% and 10% it's perfectly accurate again. I'm confused.
Would a video help? I just tried to record one, but it seems to be difficult with my laptop screen.
Posté Wed 30 Aug 17 @ 8:13 pm
Real_VDJ
I did one extra test:
- downloaded newest VDJ Home build and installed it on my girlfriend's laptop
- installed Maya44 drivers
- tried timecode with both VDJ7 en VDJ8 CD's - both have the problem again.
Mostly between 3,5% and 6,5% (both positive and negative) the CD-player's pitch does not correspond with VDJ's. It looks like the VDJ8 timecode is even worse. There's even a specific area (I think around +4% on the pitch fader), when I raise my pitch with about 0,3%, the pitch in VDJ rises almost 1,0% ! I hope you understand what I'm trying to say. :-)
Is there some kind of general issue with the CD Timecode system?
Let me know if you need more info from me, if that helps. I'd be glad to try and make a video if that would be helpful.
- downloaded newest VDJ Home build and installed it on my girlfriend's laptop
- installed Maya44 drivers
- tried timecode with both VDJ7 en VDJ8 CD's - both have the problem again.
Mostly between 3,5% and 6,5% (both positive and negative) the CD-player's pitch does not correspond with VDJ's. It looks like the VDJ8 timecode is even worse. There's even a specific area (I think around +4% on the pitch fader), when I raise my pitch with about 0,3%, the pitch in VDJ rises almost 1,0% ! I hope you understand what I'm trying to say. :-)
Is there some kind of general issue with the CD Timecode system?
Let me know if you need more info from me, if that helps. I'd be glad to try and make a video if that would be helpful.
Posté Wed 30 Aug 17 @ 9:28 pm
Real_VDJ
Ah! My old laptop still has VirtualDJ 7.3 on it, I just tested timecode CD's on it, works PERFECTLY, excellent pitch readout.
I didn't change anything to my setup, so I'm afraid there's some kind of problem in VirtualDJ8. If you need more info from me, let me know.
I didn't change anything to my setup, so I'm afraid there's some kind of problem in VirtualDJ8. If you need more info from me, let me know.
Posté Thu 31 Aug 17 @ 5:34 am
Real_VDJ
Is there no one here he can help me with this issue? I'm really starting to think this is a general issue, not just a problem on my end.
I have tested several setups (different laptops, different soundcards, fresh VDJ installations) and different timecode CD's (VDJ7, VDJ8, Serato). My timecode setup works PERFECT with DJDecks and VirtualDJ7, but still the timecode pitch isn't 100% accurate in VirtualDJ8.I tried all kinds of input volumes, calibration, etc, etc... without any luck.
The difference in % between my CD-player and VirtualDJ8 varies, it depends on the timecode. At 0% they are all perfectly aligned, but when I change the pitch on my CD-player the difference goes as high as 0,8% (which is a lot). Important: the pitch doesn't drift or seem unstable, the resulting pitch in VDJ is always the same when I "try" the same pitch% several times. So for instance 4,00% on my CD-player is ALWAYS 4,60% in my VirtualDJ.
I think there is a general issue with timecode pitch detection in VirtualDJ8, not with a specific timecode brand, but with all of them. It seems worst with my VDJ8 CD, and it seems to be less with the Serato timecode. But again, with VirtualDJ7 and DJDecks the pitch is always 100% aligned.
Doesn't anyone use timecoded CD's anymore? I think this issue would effect vinyl timecode users too, but ofcourse it would be hard (impossible) to notice it.
I have tested several setups (different laptops, different soundcards, fresh VDJ installations) and different timecode CD's (VDJ7, VDJ8, Serato). My timecode setup works PERFECT with DJDecks and VirtualDJ7, but still the timecode pitch isn't 100% accurate in VirtualDJ8.I tried all kinds of input volumes, calibration, etc, etc... without any luck.
The difference in % between my CD-player and VirtualDJ8 varies, it depends on the timecode. At 0% they are all perfectly aligned, but when I change the pitch on my CD-player the difference goes as high as 0,8% (which is a lot). Important: the pitch doesn't drift or seem unstable, the resulting pitch in VDJ is always the same when I "try" the same pitch% several times. So for instance 4,00% on my CD-player is ALWAYS 4,60% in my VirtualDJ.
I think there is a general issue with timecode pitch detection in VirtualDJ8, not with a specific timecode brand, but with all of them. It seems worst with my VDJ8 CD, and it seems to be less with the Serato timecode. But again, with VirtualDJ7 and DJDecks the pitch is always 100% aligned.
Doesn't anyone use timecoded CD's anymore? I think this issue would effect vinyl timecode users too, but ofcourse it would be hard (impossible) to notice it.
Posté Fri 01 Sep 17 @ 6:08 pm
Real_VDJ
I just downloaded the oldest VDJ8 release I could find (8.0.0 build 1785.650) and guess what, WORKS PERFECTLY. The pitch is 100% aligned.
The VirtualDJ team apparently changed something to the timecode system along the way that messed it up quite a bit.
Adion, could you check? Do you want me to start a ticket? Let me know if you need more information from me.
The VirtualDJ team apparently changed something to the timecode system along the way that messed it up quite a bit.
Adion, could you check? Do you want me to start a ticket? Let me know if you need more information from me.
Posté Fri 01 Sep 17 @ 6:27 pm
the SOUND INSURGENT
Post a video of the difference in the builds..
Posté Fri 01 Sep 17 @ 7:08 pm
Real_VDJ
Ok I just made the video's. Both are made with completely fresh VirtualDJ Home installs, all settings default. Both with VDJ7 CD timecode (downloaded from website).
FYI: I had to use the Windows magnifying glass to record the video, otherwise the percentage wasn't visible in my video
build 8.0.1785, everything works like it should, pitch is perfect:
https://youtu.be/wmesSvtq8Fs
build 8.2.3848, you can see the pitch differences several times. There are a few very big differences near the end.
https://youtu.be/UlS-x8MVsCc
FYI: I had to use the Windows magnifying glass to record the video, otherwise the percentage wasn't visible in my video
build 8.0.1785, everything works like it should, pitch is perfect:
https://youtu.be/wmesSvtq8Fs
build 8.2.3848, you can see the pitch differences several times. There are a few very big differences near the end.
https://youtu.be/UlS-x8MVsCc
Posté Fri 01 Sep 17 @ 8:33 pm
klausmogensen
Real_VDJ wrote :
Is there no one here he can help me with this issue? I'm really starting to think this is a general issue, not just a problem on my end.
Often if the dev team, based on more and more info from users, suddenly can replicate the issue, they start working on it, and won't get back to you until they have a fix.
So maybe that's the situation in the case
I hope it is :)
Posté Sat 02 Sep 17 @ 8:20 am
klausmogensen
Just thought of something:
When pitchQuality 3 was added a handful of builds ago, it created a few issues, also for pitchQuality 2 which is default
Those were quickly fixed, but I'm thinking this could maybe be related?
The old issue didn't show with pitchQuality=1
Have you tried using pitchQuality=1 for the current issue?
When pitchQuality 3 was added a handful of builds ago, it created a few issues, also for pitchQuality 2 which is default
Those were quickly fixed, but I'm thinking this could maybe be related?
The old issue didn't show with pitchQuality=1
Have you tried using pitchQuality=1 for the current issue?
Posté Sat 02 Sep 17 @ 8:29 am
