Fruit
A bit of history to understand better :)
In the past, skinners were not able to change the pos of the "ear-line" horizontally, so it was systematically centered. Because of this they could provide the feature to invert the direction of the wave's movement. At this time users (like me) were complaining that we could not set a ear-line more to the left of the screen to have more space at the right to prepare and anticipate what's coming next.
So they introduced the ability to move the ear-line along all the waveform to please us. But in the same time, if the ear-line is not centered anymore (and I guess the software isn't checking this in all skins) so it cannot find the inverted ear-line pos (which would be significantly to the right), AND doesn't know what pic to draw here. Because of this they removed the ability to invert the wave's direction (I guess).
I'll give it a shot (so not sure now) but maybe the skinner can play with the direction of the <rhythmwave/> element in order to show it inverted.
In the past, skinners were not able to change the pos of the "ear-line" horizontally, so it was systematically centered. Because of this they could provide the feature to invert the direction of the wave's movement. At this time users (like me) were complaining that we could not set a ear-line more to the left of the screen to have more space at the right to prepare and anticipate what's coming next.
So they introduced the ability to move the ear-line along all the waveform to please us. But in the same time, if the ear-line is not centered anymore (and I guess the software isn't checking this in all skins) so it cannot find the inverted ear-line pos (which would be significantly to the right), AND doesn't know what pic to draw here. Because of this they removed the ability to invert the wave's direction (I guess).
I'll give it a shot (so not sure now) but maybe the skinner can play with the direction of the <rhythmwave/> element in order to show it inverted.
Posté Mon 02 Mar 15 @ 10:06 am
Richmond
Thanks for the reply, Fruit. What you are calling an "ear-line" is where the needle contacts the record, or where the playhead would be if it were tape.
I'll never understand why they elected to move the wave form backward in the first place, but it is very dyslexic. When I move my record to the right, the wave moves left. On my Twitch, when I swipe to the right, the wave moves to the left. I can never get used to it.
It is always something I have to consciously remember, in that it is ergonomically backward. So when I'm in a rush and I need to align the beats, 50% of the time when I'm watching the waves for the alignment, I forget, and just do what comes naturally, which only makes the alignment worse. It's like a car with the steering reversed.
On other versions, of VDJ, I always have run the waves in the corrected direction, and since the option is not available in Serato, I always configure the waves travailing vertically (moving upward) on the left side. Which again is the logical direction. I just can't get used to this backward VDJ arrangement. I'm really surprised that more people don't complain about it.
I will post a note in the technical area, but meanwhile, if you should happen to develop a genius idea about how we can work around this deficiency, I would love to hear about it.
I'll never understand why they elected to move the wave form backward in the first place, but it is very dyslexic. When I move my record to the right, the wave moves left. On my Twitch, when I swipe to the right, the wave moves to the left. I can never get used to it.
It is always something I have to consciously remember, in that it is ergonomically backward. So when I'm in a rush and I need to align the beats, 50% of the time when I'm watching the waves for the alignment, I forget, and just do what comes naturally, which only makes the alignment worse. It's like a car with the steering reversed.
On other versions, of VDJ, I always have run the waves in the corrected direction, and since the option is not available in Serato, I always configure the waves travailing vertically (moving upward) on the left side. Which again is the logical direction. I just can't get used to this backward VDJ arrangement. I'm really surprised that more people don't complain about it.
I will post a note in the technical area, but meanwhile, if you should happen to develop a genius idea about how we can work around this deficiency, I would love to hear about it.
Posté Mon 02 Mar 15 @ 12:42 pm
Richmond
groovindj wrote :
No it's not possible any more. As Atomix would say "it's deprecated".
http://www.virtualdj.com/forums/187263/VirtualDJ_8_bug-report_Forum/Wave_Form_Display_Direction.html
http://www.virtualdj.com/forums/187263/VirtualDJ_8_bug-report_Forum/Wave_Form_Display_Direction.html
Yeah... I put my two cents in there.
Posté Mon 02 Mar 15 @ 1:08 pm
groovindj
So I see! You're not backwards in coming forward. :-)
As myself and others said earlier in that same thread, the direction it runs in is logical. I mean, surely far more people would be up in arms if it wasn't.
The songpos waves are displayed with the start of the track on the left, and the "play head" running towards the right. The same way that we read.
Because on the rhythmwave that "play head" (FRUiTs ear line) is fixed, it's logical that the wave below it runs left.
It's like a car that's travelling left to right. Watch the background and the car (the play head) moves right. Keep the car central in your vision and the background moves left.
As myself and others said earlier in that same thread, the direction it runs in is logical. I mean, surely far more people would be up in arms if it wasn't.
The songpos waves are displayed with the start of the track on the left, and the "play head" running towards the right. The same way that we read.
Because on the rhythmwave that "play head" (FRUiTs ear line) is fixed, it's logical that the wave below it runs left.
It's like a car that's travelling left to right. Watch the background and the car (the play head) moves right. Keep the car central in your vision and the background moves left.
Posté Mon 02 Mar 15 @ 1:24 pm
Richmond
groovindj wrote :
So I see! You're not backwards in coming forward. :-)
LOL... cute :) But, no, not at all. Well, not when I'm right, anyway...
groovindj wrote :
As myself and others said earlier in that same thread, the direction it runs in is logical. I mean, surely far more people would be up in arms if it wasn't.
The songpos waves are displayed with the start of the track on the left, and the "play head" running towards the right. The same way that we read.
Because on the rhythmwave that "play head" (FRUiTs ear line) is fixed, it's logical that the wave below it runs left.
It's like a car that's travelling left to right. Watch the background and the car (the play head) moves right. Keep the car central in your vision and the background moves left.
The songpos waves are displayed with the start of the track on the left, and the "play head" running towards the right. The same way that we read.
Because on the rhythmwave that "play head" (FRUiTs ear line) is fixed, it's logical that the wave below it runs left.
It's like a car that's travelling left to right. Watch the background and the car (the play head) moves right. Keep the car central in your vision and the background moves left.
No, you are wrong, buddy... because it isn't the playhead that's moving here... it's the record, tape, whatever, the media, which the waveform represents! We are spinning records here... not needles!
To use your analogy; if a car were a needle, and it were driving on a road that was laid out like record, yet the road moved to the left, as you say, passing underneath the car from front-to-rear... the road's 'music' would be playing backward, and the car would run off the outside of the record/road eventually.
Try it...! I'll say it again: IT"S BACKWARD!
People are animals, and their 'herd'/conformity/'follow the leader' instinct is so strong... If they ever actually have an unconventional thought, they are so afraid to express it, and will smother it. Even though they know in their heart that they are right, they can't handle the controversy and fear in their own mind, of actually being different. No wonder the asylums are full! People amaze me.......
All I'm doing here, is stating the obvious. Remember the story about the "emperor's new clothes"? Think about it, and you'll see that I'm right.
Posté Mon 02 Mar 15 @ 2:41 pm
groovindj
Richmond wrote :
No, you are wrong, buddy...
I am? Oh that must mean Phantom Deejay from Atomix is also wrong, because he's just posted a very similar reply to mine.
So everyone else using VDJ who isn't bothered about what you consider "incorrect" must also be wrong?
Richmond wrote :
We are spinning records here
Really? I thought we were playing digital media files.
In essence what you're asking for is to have the deck waveforms (songpos) running left to right, with the start on the left - BUT to have the rhythmwave the other way around, with the start on the right. In all my years working with DAW software, digital audio editing software and DJ software, I don't think I've ever seen a waveform displayed with the end on the left and the start on the right.
Are you left handed by any chance? :-)
Posté Mon 02 Mar 15 @ 2:57 pm
Richmond
Richmond wrote :
No, you are wrong, buddy...
groovindj wrote :
I am? Oh that must mean Phantom Deejay from Atomix is also wrong, because he's just posted a very similar reply to mine.
Okay, you're trying to set me up here... But, yeah, Phantom DJ is not God... If he said what you said, then he's just as wrong as you are.
groovindj wrote :
So everyone else using VDJ who isn't bothered about what you consider "incorrect" must also be wrong?
Still trying... No... obviously anyone who isn't "bothered" is not "wrong". If they like it that way, it's their business... not for me or you to say.
Richmond wrote :
We are spinning records here
groovindj wrote :
Really? I thought we were playing digital media files.
Don't be difficult... I already know you're not that dense. The records, platters, whatever, those are our handle on the music, and the waves are representative of that.
groovindj wrote :
In essence what you're asking for is to have the deck waveforms (songpos) running left to right, with the start on the left - BUT to have the rhythmwave the other way around, with the start on the right. In all my years working with DAW software, digital audio editing software and DJ software, I don't think I've ever seen a waveform displayed with the end on the left and the start on the right.
That's correct. I realize that the song position (static waveform) is turned around the wrong way also, but that doesn't bother me, as it basically just serves as a position indicator. The wave does not move, but rather the pointer. And when I move my 'handle' to the right or to the left, the marker moves accordingly. I'm fine with that.
I'm sorry if it bothers you that some other software may not be mechanized in the (proper) fashion which I've described. We have to learn to think logically, and do so on our own. Refer back to my previous post, for my philosophy regarding the unfortunate, yet most prevalent syndrome which afflicts most of humankind.
groovindj wrote :
Are you left handed by any chance? :-)
Ahhh... "left brained", maybe..?
But seriously... this discussion has little to do with Fruit's VDJ skin. I'd feel much less disrespectful, and more comfortable arguing with you over on the proper thread.
Posté Mon 02 Mar 15 @ 11:05 pm
bazooo
I enjoyed that,impressed with you both, thanks
Posté Tue 03 Mar 15 @ 1:49 am
kradcliffe
C'mon guys, please keep this thread on topic and continue your discussion about backward waveforms (or whatever it is) elsewhere!
Posté Tue 03 Mar 15 @ 1:53 am
dj lylian
Hello
for the problem with the skin Fruit, disable the songpos in the skin options.
for the problem with the skin Fruit, disable the songpos in the skin options.
Posté Tue 03 Mar 15 @ 7:51 am
SBDJ
I'll hold my hand up to that mask issue, I've fixed it in the next build!
Posté Tue 03 Mar 15 @ 8:20 am
Fruit
Thanks :)
What I call ear-line is that white line in the middle of the waveform to show you "what you ear now".
Unfortunately after a quick try it does not seem to be possible...
I didn't mention it in my previous post, but I still think this option shouldn't have been removed, thus I recognize it can be hard to implement according to the new moving ability of the ear-line.
Richmond wrote :
Thanks for the reply, Fruit. What you are calling an "ear-line"
What I call ear-line is that white line in the middle of the waveform to show you "what you ear now".
Richmond wrote :
if you should happen to develop a genius idea about how we can work around this deficiency, I would love to hear about it.
Unfortunately after a quick try it does not seem to be possible...
I didn't mention it in my previous post, but I still think this option shouldn't have been removed, thus I recognize it can be hard to implement according to the new moving ability of the ear-line.
Posté Tue 03 Mar 15 @ 9:33 am
AsTheDJ
No/can't drop down also & no LED
Posté Tue 03 Mar 15 @ 3:35 pm
Richmond
Richmond wrote :
if you should happen to develop a genius idea about how we can work around this deficiency, I would love to hear about it.
Fruit wrote :
Unfortunately after a quick try it does not seem to be possible...
I didn't mention it in my previous post, but I still think this option shouldn't have been removed, thus I recognize it can be hard to implement according to the new moving ability of the ear-line.
I didn't mention it in my previous post, but I still think this option shouldn't have been removed, thus I recognize it can be hard to implement according to the new moving ability of the ear-line.
Thank you. Regardless, I appreciate your effort. At least we don't have to speculate about it anymore. It's up to the developers now. Maybe it wouldn't be so difficult, if they could just make it work with the line in the conventional (center) location. I could live with that, if necessary.
Posté Tue 03 Mar 15 @ 7:42 pm
Fruit
asthedj wrote :
No/can't drop down also & no LED
Maybe you tried the Hercules RMX2 mode ?
In this mode, only the RMX2 console can control the sides of the decks (same behavior as the RMX2 skin by djdad). In order to enable clicking again, you might check :
- Atomix menu / sides / mouse
Posté Wed 04 Mar 15 @ 6:08 am
Fruit
Richmond wrote :
Maybe it wouldn't be so difficult, if they could just make it work with the line in the conventional (center) location. I could live with that, if necessary.
I dreamed about something while reading both you / groovin.
Skiners would still set everything in the rhythmzone, except the overlay horizontal (x) pos (<- actually what I call ear-line). Then, a hardcoded procedure would draw the given 'up' pic to show as the overlay, AND it would bring the same mouse cursor as while you're resizing a window (double arrow) while hovering that overlay. So we could grab the overlay with the mouse, move it around at the horizontal pos we want. Because that x-pos would be hardcoded, it would be easy for the sotware to know how to invert it, as well as let the user choose how much space he wants on both sides (PLUS it would be 'on-the-fly' !).
Posté Wed 04 Mar 15 @ 7:20 am
groovindj
I don't see why the ability to move the "ear-line" causes any issue with having the rhythm wave move in the other direction.
The reason for wanting the line movable was to show more of the upcoming (not played yet) wave, yes? So to achieve that, the line would be moved more left.
With the wave running the other way, the line would be moved further right, with the same end result (more visible upcoming wave).
As long as the line could be moved either left or right, it doesn't really matter which way the wave runs.
The reason for wanting the line movable was to show more of the upcoming (not played yet) wave, yes? So to achieve that, the line would be moved more left.
With the wave running the other way, the line would be moved further right, with the same end result (more visible upcoming wave).
As long as the line could be moved either left or right, it doesn't really matter which way the wave runs.
Posté Wed 04 Mar 15 @ 7:39 am
Fruit
Yes exactly, but when you set an non-centered line to the left, it is hard-written in the skin's XML and then the software doesn't know where the line is, nor how to change the value, and then it cannot place it on the other side if an inversion is requested. At least that's what I guess from my knowledge.
In other words, in the manner the ear-line is actually handled, it cannot be dynamic, because all is fixed in a third-party xml sheet.
Hope that makes sense.
In other words, in the manner the ear-line is actually handled, it cannot be dynamic, because all is fixed in a third-party xml sheet.
Hope that makes sense.
Posté Wed 04 Mar 15 @ 7:49 am
Richmond
Fruit wrote :
Yes exactly, but when you set an non-centered line to the left, it is hard-written in the skin's XML and then the software doesn't know where the line is, nor how to change the value, and then it cannot place it on the other side if an inversion is requested. At least that's what I guess from my knowledge. In other words, in the manner the ear-line is actually handled, it cannot be dynamic, because all is fixed in a third-party xml sheet.
I've just been reading and thinking about what you are relating here, and It made me wonder... I may not be totally understanding you, but...
If (as I take it) it is possible to "invert" the wave, and thereby reverse the direction of travel... and we are also able to move move the "earline" anywhere we like via the skin's bitmap file... why not invert the wave, find the new earline position, and then calculate and change that position to match, in the skin file?
Or am I just missing something?
Posté Wed 04 Mar 15 @ 4:22 pm
