olivier REMUX
Hi,
Seems that Algorithms for determining the key of an audio file isn't updated since V8.0
Still lof of error between minor/major detection in V 8.5 2021
When Rekordbox V5/6 is right on Key detection, VirtualDJ is still wrong still on many tracks.
it's sad because, VIRTUAL DJ is one of the best DJ software, but KEY detection need more work, now, compared to competitors. (And why not, chord detection, in near future ?)
Regards,
Olivier
Seems that Algorithms for determining the key of an audio file isn't updated since V8.0
Still lof of error between minor/major detection in V 8.5 2021
When Rekordbox V5/6 is right on Key detection, VirtualDJ is still wrong still on many tracks.
it's sad because, VIRTUAL DJ is one of the best DJ software, but KEY detection need more work, now, compared to competitors. (And why not, chord detection, in near future ?)
Regards,
Olivier
Posté Tue 07 Jul 20 @ 4:04 am
groovindj
What are your setting for key detection in VDJ? Different settings = different results.
How do you know that Rekordbox is correct?
What type of music are you using to check the accuracy? Please give examples of tracks you've tried (artist - title, detected key, "real" key).
How do you know that Rekordbox is correct?
What type of music are you using to check the accuracy? Please give examples of tracks you've tried (artist - title, detected key, "real" key).
Posté Tue 07 Jul 20 @ 7:53 am
olivier REMUX
Hi,
How do you know that Rekordbox is correct?
I'm a pianist. I play the played track by ear on the PIANO and find always the same Key than Rekordbox (100%), but not same as VDJ(70%)
Even with broad range or electronic.....options
just compare the 2 software (Free Rekordbox editor and VirtualDJ)
sure VirtualDJ could do better if the algo were updated....
How do you know that Rekordbox is correct?
I'm a pianist. I play the played track by ear on the PIANO and find always the same Key than Rekordbox (100%), but not same as VDJ(70%)
Even with broad range or electronic.....options
just compare the 2 software (Free Rekordbox editor and VirtualDJ)
sure VirtualDJ could do better if the algo were updated....
Posté Tue 07 Jul 20 @ 3:09 pm
groovindj
Unanswered questions:
What are your key detection settings in VDJ?
What type of music are you using?
What are your key detection settings in VDJ?
What type of music are you using?
Posté Tue 07 Jul 20 @ 3:14 pm
olivier REMUX
several kind of music....
EDM/POP/SONGS./DISCO ....
just tried with 2 options with one for example
Pop french SONG "dejeuner en PAIX" STEPHAN EICHER
Real Key : Bm (Track is in Bm : classical pop/rock chords : B minor (1deg)/G major / A major /F# minor (5 deg)/
Rekordbox : Bm -> right
VIRTUALDJ 2021 : A (With broad range option)
VIRTUALDJ 2021 : Am (with electronic option)
the track on youtube :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SD27eir2GNw
but in VDJ i use original flac AUDIO file, not this video in AAC.
check
EDM/POP/SONGS./DISCO ....
just tried with 2 options with one for example
Pop french SONG "dejeuner en PAIX" STEPHAN EICHER
Real Key : Bm (Track is in Bm : classical pop/rock chords : B minor (1deg)/G major / A major /F# minor (5 deg)/
Rekordbox : Bm -> right
VIRTUALDJ 2021 : A (With broad range option)
VIRTUALDJ 2021 : Am (with electronic option)
the track on youtube :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SD27eir2GNw
but in VDJ i use original flac AUDIO file, not this video in AAC.
check
Posté Tue 07 Jul 20 @ 3:15 pm
groovindj
I can't find any data for this year, but last year a comparison was performed with over 800 tracks - and Mixed In Key came out top (it is generally regarded as the best) with 76% accuracy.
Rekordbox 5.6.1 came in 4th position (out of 5) with only 63% accuracy. So unless Pioneer have improved the detection a lot in version 6, 100% accuracy seems unlikely.
100% out of how many tracks?
Rekordbox 5.6.1 came in 4th position (out of 5) with only 63% accuracy. So unless Pioneer have improved the detection a lot in version 6, 100% accuracy seems unlikely.
100% out of how many tracks?
Posté Tue 07 Jul 20 @ 3:25 pm
olivier REMUX
for me yes , in Rekordbox V6
but don't worry, i prefer VirtualDJ for other features :)
but it's sad, that key detection now work better in Rekordbox 6 than VDJ, for my tracks. :)
for sure, Virtual DJ team can improve the algo
i've 5000 files.
But i've checked / played 200...
look at my example
but don't worry, i prefer VirtualDJ for other features :)
but it's sad, that key detection now work better in Rekordbox 6 than VDJ, for my tracks. :)
for sure, Virtual DJ team can improve the algo
i've 5000 files.
But i've checked / played 200...
look at my example
Posté Tue 07 Jul 20 @ 3:28 pm
groovindj
You say it's Bm, but VDJ says it's A...
Three out of four chords you mentioned are present in A as well as Bm.
Three out of four chords you mentioned are present in A as well as Bm.
Posté Tue 07 Jul 20 @ 3:33 pm
olivier REMUX
Hi,
But the Track/melody is in Bm minor not in A....
It's a Bm Chord progression.
Sometimes in a minor melody you have Major Chord.
It's the rules of music Harmony. The song is in Minor and sound in minor
But the Track/melody is in Bm minor not in A....
It's a Bm Chord progression.
Sometimes in a minor melody you have Major Chord.
It's the rules of music Harmony. The song is in Minor and sound in minor
Posté Tue 07 Jul 20 @ 3:38 pm
groovindj
I'm not saying VDJ got it right. I'm just saying that the computer sees three out of four chords and has to make a choice.
The computer doesn't have ears and is not a trained musician.
The computer doesn't have ears and is not a trained musician.
Posté Tue 07 Jul 20 @ 3:44 pm
olivier REMUX
Hi,
another example, of VirtualDJ being wrong in key detection ?
THINK ABOUT A WAY, from ICE MC (EURODANCE 90)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqs6pverp5U
It's in D minor, melody in D minor, if you have relative/absolute pitch....
Virtual Dj 2021 say : F Major with (broad range)
Virtual Dj 2021 say : F Minor ..... (with electronic option)
And Rekordbox 6 say : Dm : right....
just play the melody on Keyboard, it's sound minor....... D minor.... if you have ear.
Eurodance it's not a complicated track to analyse.
If Rekordbox 6 say right as a computer, Virtual Dj team could improve with alrady those 2 examples their Algo......
it would be easy , team is composed of great developpers :)
but sad that VirtualDJ make mistakes on easy dance track....
another example, of VirtualDJ being wrong in key detection ?
THINK ABOUT A WAY, from ICE MC (EURODANCE 90)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqs6pverp5U
It's in D minor, melody in D minor, if you have relative/absolute pitch....
Virtual Dj 2021 say : F Major with (broad range)
Virtual Dj 2021 say : F Minor ..... (with electronic option)
And Rekordbox 6 say : Dm : right....
just play the melody on Keyboard, it's sound minor....... D minor.... if you have ear.
Eurodance it's not a complicated track to analyse.
If Rekordbox 6 say right as a computer, Virtual Dj team could improve with alrady those 2 examples their Algo......
it would be easy , team is composed of great developpers :)
but sad that VirtualDJ make mistakes on easy dance track....
Posté Tue 07 Jul 20 @ 3:45 pm
Dan (djtouchdan)
So I downloaded the file you mentioned (from YouTube) and analysed in VDJ 2020 and VDJ 2021
Dm : right ;)
Dm : right ;)
Posté Tue 07 Jul 20 @ 4:03 pm
groovindj
Dm and F are compatible keys.
Dm = 7A
F = 7B
Dm = 7A
F = 7B
Posté Tue 07 Jul 20 @ 4:03 pm
olivier REMUX
Hi,
Sorry but i've not used the VIDEO file with AAC compressed audio, but the original .flac of "Think about the way...."
AND VDJ2021 say F not Dm
sorry but F Major melody doesn't sound like as D minor melody.
It's relative, but the colour of Major and minor is not the same....
With the Original .flac file on OSX 10.15 IMAC :
Rekordbox 6 say : Dm as it's the real
Virtual DJ V8.5 5980 on OS X(electronic option ) say wrong "Fm" :
Virtual DJ V8.5 5980 on OS XA with Broad range key option, Wrong F Major :
Sorry mystake between Major and minor, for such easy track is a bug.
I can send you the .flac in private mail, if you want to try, and compare with your Instrument, Rekordbox 6 and VDJ 2021....
Do you want another example ?
easy to find.....
Sorry but i've not used the VIDEO file with AAC compressed audio, but the original .flac of "Think about the way...."
AND VDJ2021 say F not Dm
sorry but F Major melody doesn't sound like as D minor melody.
It's relative, but the colour of Major and minor is not the same....
With the Original .flac file on OSX 10.15 IMAC :
Rekordbox 6 say : Dm as it's the real
Virtual DJ V8.5 5980 on OS X(electronic option ) say wrong "Fm" :
Virtual DJ V8.5 5980 on OS XA with Broad range key option, Wrong F Major :
Sorry mystake between Major and minor, for such easy track is a bug.
I can send you the .flac in private mail, if you want to try, and compare with your Instrument, Rekordbox 6 and VDJ 2021....
Do you want another example ?
easy to find.....
Posté Tue 07 Jul 20 @ 4:50 pm
olivier REMUX
i will sent you a link with the .flac not the video..... on your private mail.
Received it ? (.flac file, not the AAC video...)
The real tonality is Dm, D minor, (Absolute ear)
Virtual DJ 5980 on OSX say F or Fm..... not like the video version
With the .flac file i sent you (not the video), same flac in Rekordbox / VDJ :
And just downloaded the video :
AAC but same sound KEY as .flac ,
but VirtualDJ say in AAC : D minor , but in Flac say : F major or F minor
Did you try my flac, i've sent tou to compare with the video .... ?????
seems that VIRTUALDJ have a big bug only with some (not all) .flac files in Key detection........ i think it's only with .flac.
With same flac, Rekordbox gind the same result between the AAC or Flac version of the same song.....
i'm not a big fan of Rekordbox, but i have to say V6 it's better than VDJ in Key detection....
So it's a flac problem with KEY in VDJ....
just try yo help..... please check in depth.. between the video and the .flac i've sent you / and between RKB and VDJ....
Received it ? (.flac file, not the AAC video...)
The real tonality is Dm, D minor, (Absolute ear)
Virtual DJ 5980 on OSX say F or Fm..... not like the video version
With the .flac file i sent you (not the video), same flac in Rekordbox / VDJ :
And just downloaded the video :
AAC but same sound KEY as .flac ,
but VirtualDJ say in AAC : D minor , but in Flac say : F major or F minor
Did you try my flac, i've sent tou to compare with the video .... ?????
seems that VIRTUALDJ have a big bug only with some (not all) .flac files in Key detection........ i think it's only with .flac.
With same flac, Rekordbox gind the same result between the AAC or Flac version of the same song.....
i'm not a big fan of Rekordbox, but i have to say V6 it's better than VDJ in Key detection....
So it's a flac problem with KEY in VDJ....
just try yo help..... please check in depth.. between the video and the .flac i've sent you / and between RKB and VDJ....
Posté Tue 07 Jul 20 @ 5:07 pm
Dan (djtouchdan)
I can see the difference. I'm not a developer though - so will have to see if they can replicate and fix the issue.
Posté Tue 07 Jul 20 @ 5:52 pm
groovindj
Mixed In Key = 7A
Rekordbox 6 = 7A
Engine Prime =7A
Serato = 7A
VDJ 7 = 7A
VDJ 8 = 7B (also when converted to MP3)
I know that VDJ 7 almost always reported keys as minor, so the other DJ software may also give minor keys priority.
So far both tracks you mentioned have been minor. How many of your 200 tracks that gave 100% perfect results in Rekordbox were minor?
Rekordbox 6 = 7A
Engine Prime =7A
Serato = 7A
VDJ 7 = 7A
VDJ 8 = 7B (also when converted to MP3)
I know that VDJ 7 almost always reported keys as minor, so the other DJ software may also give minor keys priority.
So far both tracks you mentioned have been minor. How many of your 200 tracks that gave 100% perfect results in Rekordbox were minor?
Posté Tue 07 Jul 20 @ 5:55 pm
olivier REMUX
Hi,
Thanks for your both feedback :)
Interessing
so VirtualDJ 7 better on key the VirtualDJ 8.x ?
Anyway, i've encoded my .flac (i've sent you) , to MP3, AND AAC, and still 7B (F Major) or 4A ( Fminor) error instead 7A ( D minor)
So not a .flac problem....
it's between V7 and V8
Adion ? perhaps ? can help ?
Thanks for your both feedback :)
Interessing
so VirtualDJ 7 better on key the VirtualDJ 8.x ?
Anyway, i've encoded my .flac (i've sent you) , to MP3, AND AAC, and still 7B (F Major) or 4A ( Fminor) error instead 7A ( D minor)
So not a .flac problem....
it's between V7 and V8
Adion ? perhaps ? can help ?
Posté Tue 07 Jul 20 @ 6:04 pm
Adion
V7 detection is the same as the electronic setting in vdj 8, meaning that it's only useful if all your music is in a minor key
Posté Wed 08 Jul 20 @ 12:35 am
olivier REMUX
Hi,
Thanks,
The electronic settingsin my case tell always "minor", and with the wrong key too in most case. Broad range seems to work a little better, but not perfect
However sure you can fix/improve, in future updates this, so that VIRTUALDJ tell the right minor / Major key, like other software :)
VirtualDJ is a great software, but this Key Detection have to be improved.
Regards,
Olivier
Thanks,
The electronic settingsin my case tell always "minor", and with the wrong key too in most case. Broad range seems to work a little better, but not perfect
However sure you can fix/improve, in future updates this, so that VIRTUALDJ tell the right minor / Major key, like other software :)
VirtualDJ is a great software, but this Key Detection have to be improved.
Regards,
Olivier
Posté Wed 08 Jul 20 @ 7:54 am
