VJ Corny
Since I'm going to be playing a lot of reggae soon, I've been very occupied these days with researching how to avoid having to manually warp or quantize or re-grid every single reggae track from the 20th century in Ableton Live before loading them into VDJ.
It seems that the best way in VDJ would be by using flexible grids (manual grid markers). That is still a lot of work (which is okay) with less then perfect results (non-seamless loops are not okay).
I really liked the look of this flexible grid manipulation...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsIT5fyOyTs
Is something like this also possible in VDJ?
Another thing I liked was the AI grid...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRyIdGS2fcA
But that would be something for the wish list/requested features.
It seems that the best way in VDJ would be by using flexible grids (manual grid markers). That is still a lot of work (which is okay) with less then perfect results (non-seamless loops are not okay).
I really liked the look of this flexible grid manipulation...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsIT5fyOyTs
Is something like this also possible in VDJ?
Another thing I liked was the AI grid...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRyIdGS2fcA
But that would be something for the wish list/requested features.
Posté Sat 07 Sep 24 @ 10:04 pm
groovindj
At this stage in the game, if that's what you need, then your best friend will be Algoriddim's djay Pro.
When we first got stem separation, VDJ and djay Pro left the blocks at the same time. Unfortunately the same cannot be said for the smarter beatgrids.
When we first got stem separation, VDJ and djay Pro left the blocks at the same time. Unfortunately the same cannot be said for the smarter beatgrids.
Posté Sat 07 Sep 24 @ 10:33 pm
VJ Corny
Nope. I'm sticking with VDJ. For several reasons and one unique feature ;)
Posté Sat 07 Sep 24 @ 10:38 pm
djnikkofb
Yes the feature is called beatlock on virtual dj. It's been around for a year +.
Posté Sun 08 Sep 24 @ 3:11 am
VJ Corny
Beat lock is not what you are seeing in the video. It's to do with the beat grid, two anchors, and a flexible grid in between... It's a bit better than having to place each marker manually, as is the way in VDJ, if I understood correctly...
At any rate, an AI grid would be a blessing. No more manual readjusting the beats...
At any rate, an AI grid would be a blessing. No more manual readjusting the beats...
Posté Sun 08 Sep 24 @ 8:09 am
Dj Chachi
If you are not going to be using any help (nothing wrong with that), beatlock, sync, quantize, Efx, etc. You are better off just Analyzing Multiple on VirtualDj. This way you don't get that variable BPM's you will be getting for beatgridding a very unstable track.
Also been playing with dJay Pro and the AI beatgridding is not really a big solution for unstable tracks, it only works pretty nice when decks are lock to each other and with 4 beats beat sync enable, also snap & quantize are really bad on dJay Pro they don't stick to what they are suppost to do.
Ableton is the best choice for fixing unstable tracks, but it takes much effort to fix a big collection, even with a simple auto warp & export.
Also been playing with dJay Pro and the AI beatgridding is not really a big solution for unstable tracks, it only works pretty nice when decks are lock to each other and with 4 beats beat sync enable, also snap & quantize are really bad on dJay Pro they don't stick to what they are suppost to do.
Ableton is the best choice for fixing unstable tracks, but it takes much effort to fix a big collection, even with a simple auto warp & export.
Posté Mon 09 Sep 24 @ 10:36 am
VJ Corny
Yes, I know. I re-warped my entire mainstream music video collection with Ableton Live. I just wanted to avoid the work with my reggae collection.
I do use beatlock and sync btw.
I do use beatlock and sync btw.
Posté Mon 09 Sep 24 @ 11:01 am
groovindj
News just in - apparently this has just (17th Dec) been added to Rekordbox in 7.0.7.
They've called it "high precision BeatGrid analysis"
I really was hoping that Atomix would bring something to the table first (post DJay Pro of course).
Oh well...
[sad face]
They've called it "high precision BeatGrid analysis"
I really was hoping that Atomix would bring something to the table first (post DJay Pro of course).
Oh well...
[sad face]
Posté Sat 28 Dec 24 @ 2:13 pm
DJ VinylTouch
I'm glad they implemented it but look how quietly that was received (been out for about a week now, they listed it as an improvement and not a feature, and another point release came out after it - 7.0.8). It also seems like it's not the default (haven't played around with it yet)
I'm pretty sure all remaining players have this on their radar - I rather Atomix devs take the time to get it right than rush to fall into an arbitrary timeline/competition and when it's released.we are disappointed with the result/report lots of bugs about it.
Also, DJay wasn't the first to take beatgridding more seriously/make it more accurate that normal it seems - there was at least one report I remembered/found on the Traktor forums that indicated that deckadance apparently did such an improvement first years before their release (I've never used Deckadance so I can't confirm of deny that). DJay did put it at the forefront in their 5.0 release marketing and (arguably) potentially made it better with AI.
I'm pretty sure all remaining players have this on their radar - I rather Atomix devs take the time to get it right than rush to fall into an arbitrary timeline/competition and when it's released.we are disappointed with the result/report lots of bugs about it.
Also, DJay wasn't the first to take beatgridding more seriously/make it more accurate that normal it seems - there was at least one report I remembered/found on the Traktor forums that indicated that deckadance apparently did such an improvement first years before their release (I've never used Deckadance so I can't confirm of deny that). DJay did put it at the forefront in their 5.0 release marketing and (arguably) potentially made it better with AI.
Posté Sat 28 Dec 24 @ 2:33 pm
groovindj
Oh yes, definitely you can go back in time and there were some long dead products that attempted it.
The guy behind PCDJ Red, Jorgen Hedburg, had something like it in PCDJ Reflex 14 years ago, which never really got finished. PCDJ dropped the software and he released it later as RPM. That also died silently in a corner.
I'm reading that the Rekordbox data can be imported to Engine DJ, so possibly it will also import to VirtualDJ.....
The guy behind PCDJ Red, Jorgen Hedburg, had something like it in PCDJ Reflex 14 years ago, which never really got finished. PCDJ dropped the software and he released it later as RPM. That also died silently in a corner.
I'm reading that the Rekordbox data can be imported to Engine DJ, so possibly it will also import to VirtualDJ.....
Posté Sat 28 Dec 24 @ 3:03 pm
DJ VinylTouch
No doubt with previous projects, I was just moreso getting at how the power of marketing and having influencers can affect the outcome.
In terms of Rekordbox analysis update being exportable - that's most likely because they did the entire analysis completely upfront, maybe even using "Stems 2.0" analysis. I do wonder how their analysis times have been affected (probably in a negative sense, which is why it prob isn't default).
In terms of Rekordbox analysis update being exportable - that's most likely because they did the entire analysis completely upfront, maybe even using "Stems 2.0" analysis. I do wonder how their analysis times have been affected (probably in a negative sense, which is why it prob isn't default).
Posté Sat 28 Dec 24 @ 3:29 pm
groovindj
I've just given it a try, and there doesn't seem to be much of an impact on analysis time. The BPM readout is live too, following the changes. I shall experiment some more...
Posté Sat 28 Dec 24 @ 3:37 pm
DJ VinylTouch
TBH with a good computer (which is probably what you have for VDJ) that kind analysis takes no time - it happens realtime for VirtualDJ for stems 2.0 analysis as well. I wonder how it does with older/lower spec computers.
Posté Sat 28 Dec 24 @ 6:52 pm
groovindj
Actually this computer (tower) is fairly old now. The CPU was launched in 2017.
I've not tried it on my laptop, which is newer and beefier.
I've not tried it on my laptop, which is newer and beefier.
Posté Sat 28 Dec 24 @ 8:26 pm
DJ VinylTouch
@groovindj I also tried the new anaylsis - it seems the work well and also seems to be fully exportable by existing tools (I was able to successfully sync a grid to VirtualDJ...I didn't check the anchors though)
Posté Thu 02 Jan 25 @ 12:03 am
Niels (cph)
I also tested it with a handful of 70s disco tracks.
Overall it is good at detecting the beats, and it puts 100+ markers in the grid. And not only on the 1-beat, sometimes 2 or 3 markers in a bar.
But it has problems with non 4/4 bars, which are common in disco, and it loses the phrasing. As far as I can see there is no way to fix the phrasing after that. You can’t set a manual anchor to mark the beginning of the next bar without also impacting the previous markers. Algoriddim’ s grid editor can do that.
Also, in some cases it gets confused and slows down the BPM in a short passage, and as above there is no way to fix it.
Overall it is good at detecting the beats, and it puts 100+ markers in the grid. And not only on the 1-beat, sometimes 2 or 3 markers in a bar.
But it has problems with non 4/4 bars, which are common in disco, and it loses the phrasing. As far as I can see there is no way to fix the phrasing after that. You can’t set a manual anchor to mark the beginning of the next bar without also impacting the previous markers. Algoriddim’ s grid editor can do that.
Also, in some cases it gets confused and slows down the BPM in a short passage, and as above there is no way to fix it.
Posté Sat 04 Jan 25 @ 9:31 am
DJ VinylTouch
DJay also struggles when the time signature changes (which is expected - that's a different level of knowledge of the music other than just knowing where gridmarkers should land) and slowdowns, especially when it's only vocals in that area going forward and the change is abrupt.
Grid adjustment was always an area I found Rekordbox terrible at - I seemed to recall not easily being able to adjust the BPM in sections and I don't think it was possible (or at least it wasn't obvious to me how) to change previous anchor sections once a new anchor was laid.
VirtualDJ however is really good at all of that - the grid is mouse stretchable so no BPM guessing is needed to lineup markers, and you can always go back to an anchor section and stretch/narrow the grid (provided all of that editing is being done to the left of the 1st anchor), or add a new anchor (with the correct 1 beat reset).
I did notice also that there was no way to tune the preciseness of the new analysis - whatever it chooses is what it chooses for anchor placement. That means it may place lots more beatmarkers that desired for a measure/collection of measure sections (meaning a lot more grid points in the database for these type of songs I guess).
Grid adjustment was always an area I found Rekordbox terrible at - I seemed to recall not easily being able to adjust the BPM in sections and I don't think it was possible (or at least it wasn't obvious to me how) to change previous anchor sections once a new anchor was laid.
VirtualDJ however is really good at all of that - the grid is mouse stretchable so no BPM guessing is needed to lineup markers, and you can always go back to an anchor section and stretch/narrow the grid (provided all of that editing is being done to the left of the 1st anchor), or add a new anchor (with the correct 1 beat reset).
I did notice also that there was no way to tune the preciseness of the new analysis - whatever it chooses is what it chooses for anchor placement. That means it may place lots more beatmarkers that desired for a measure/collection of measure sections (meaning a lot more grid points in the database for these type of songs I guess).
Posté Sat 04 Jan 25 @ 1:08 pm