anewsome
Well I just got back from a long weekend in Las Vegas, and I was anxious to get some more practice in on VDJ and my XP10s. So I fire up VDJ and I load Zero 7 - Destiny on Deck A and start playing it, and then Twist - So Sexy on deck B (weird mix I know, this in my dining room not a club). So I start jogging the XP10 to find the right cue start on Deck B and then wham! Deck A goes into a 1 count loop and just keeps looping. Sound is still playing but just a 1 count loop. It sounds like a scratched record that is "skipping", seriously that is what it sounds like.
At this point VDJ is not responding to any input at all. It's still on the screen. Display appears to be updating itself, but the song is just a tight loop. Will not respond to keyboard input or the XP10s. I had to use the task manager to kill it. while I was in the task manager, I also saw that I have PLENTY of memory available too, as this system has 684MB of RAM in it.
As you may remember from my previous posts, this is an otherwise SOLID new Dell system with a fast processor and plenty of RAM. It's also a purpose-built system that only has 1 application installed (VDJ). It is not used for anything else.
There is only one good thing about this crash, and that's that it didn't happen while I was doing a real live performance . Since this is my third crash in about a month and a half of using VDJ, it really shakes my confidence on whether or not VDJ is viable for real club use. I think the first time a venue director heard my "broken record" malfunction that I experienced today, I would be dismissed from that job - with predjudice. Might be kinda hard to get gigs as a serious DJ if you have a reputation for using toy equipment, not suitable for real club use.
At this point VDJ is not responding to any input at all. It's still on the screen. Display appears to be updating itself, but the song is just a tight loop. Will not respond to keyboard input or the XP10s. I had to use the task manager to kill it. while I was in the task manager, I also saw that I have PLENTY of memory available too, as this system has 684MB of RAM in it.
As you may remember from my previous posts, this is an otherwise SOLID new Dell system with a fast processor and plenty of RAM. It's also a purpose-built system that only has 1 application installed (VDJ). It is not used for anything else.
There is only one good thing about this crash, and that's that it didn't happen while I was doing a real live performance . Since this is my third crash in about a month and a half of using VDJ, it really shakes my confidence on whether or not VDJ is viable for real club use. I think the first time a venue director heard my "broken record" malfunction that I experienced today, I would be dismissed from that job - with predjudice. Might be kinda hard to get gigs as a serious DJ if you have a reputation for using toy equipment, not suitable for real club use.
Posté Mon 24 Jan 05 @ 3:01 am
anewsome
Adding some more comments to this thread since this just happened to me again! That makes crash number 4. I remember reading some threads about VDJ more prone to crashing while a song is loading on a deck. I think this is what's happening to me. The fix for this is one of the following:
1.) Don't touch ANYTHING while a song is loading
or
2.) Atomix can fix their program
I would much prefer fix #2 because I can't guarentee I'll be able to always use fix #1. Sometimes I would probably forget and then I would be hit by this bug.
Also, another update on the above described problem. The display does not update and BOTH decks are stuck in a tight loop broken record sound. Annoying indeed.
Maybe someone can write a plugin that doesn't allow you do touch anything while a song is loading and make it so the plugin can't be disabled. I know it sounds crazy but I'm serious.
1.) Don't touch ANYTHING while a song is loading
or
2.) Atomix can fix their program
I would much prefer fix #2 because I can't guarentee I'll be able to always use fix #1. Sometimes I would probably forget and then I would be hit by this bug.
Also, another update on the above described problem. The display does not update and BOTH decks are stuck in a tight loop broken record sound. Annoying indeed.
Maybe someone can write a plugin that doesn't allow you do touch anything while a song is loading and make it so the plugin can't be disabled. I know it sounds crazy but I'm serious.
Posté Mon 24 Jan 05 @ 4:01 am
DJ Andre Landry
Well first of all if you dont touch when loading..... you wont have problems
secondly you need to check the temp maybe your cpu is too hot
Thrid of all dont touch eqs use external mixer for that
If you can manage to work around these little problems the program runs fine
I use vdj in the club and i havent had any crashes since 2.06
Andre
secondly you need to check the temp maybe your cpu is too hot
Thrid of all dont touch eqs use external mixer for that
If you can manage to work around these little problems the program runs fine
I use vdj in the club and i havent had any crashes since 2.06
Andre
Posté Mon 24 Jan 05 @ 4:23 am
Bargler
I find that only the functions that involve software changes to the tone or timbre of the sound are problematic if used while the track is loading. I have no problems with things such as moving around between cues or setting and playing loops while the track loads.
I haven't had a crash for awhile, but I still hold my breath every time I have to load a track while an effect tweaks the sound of the other deck.
I haven't had a crash for awhile, but I still hold my breath every time I have to load a track while an effect tweaks the sound of the other deck.
Posté Mon 24 Jan 05 @ 5:52 am
Ok, I have been mixing for the last 3 hours and now this problem is so easy to reapeat it is ridiculous. To respond to the previous posts - The CPU is not too hot. This is a high end Dell desktop with giant fans front and rear and well designed case that directs the airflow over the hot spots. This isn't one of those generic build it yourself desktop boxes.
I've never touched the EQ things at all. I am using an external mixer with my two XP10s.
And now the problem is happening even when I don't touch anything while loading. The previous problem that someone had posted about scratching at the begining of the file, this is what's happening to me.
If I load up and start playing a song on deck 1 and then start scratch mixing the song on deck 2 (at the begining of the track), then it will almost certainly crash for sure.
I've recorded me doing this on this file:
http://weezy.homelinux.com/crash.mp3
This was recorded on a seperate computer than my VDJ system. I use an external mixer and my computer does not have a soundcard in it, and of course the XP10 have no input either so there is no way to record on my VDJ system. So I connected my mixer output to the input on my laptop.
Listen to it and you'll see that 30 seconds into my mix, the program crashes and does the broken record thing. No comments on my scratching ability, I really wasn't focusing on it - I was trying to reproduce the problem. Also, my apologies for the crappy sound quality of the mp3, my laptop does not have a line in, only a mic in so oviously there are some impedance matching problems there.
Listen to it and you'll see what I am talking about.
I've never touched the EQ things at all. I am using an external mixer with my two XP10s.
And now the problem is happening even when I don't touch anything while loading. The previous problem that someone had posted about scratching at the begining of the file, this is what's happening to me.
If I load up and start playing a song on deck 1 and then start scratch mixing the song on deck 2 (at the begining of the track), then it will almost certainly crash for sure.
I've recorded me doing this on this file:
http://weezy.homelinux.com/crash.mp3
This was recorded on a seperate computer than my VDJ system. I use an external mixer and my computer does not have a soundcard in it, and of course the XP10 have no input either so there is no way to record on my VDJ system. So I connected my mixer output to the input on my laptop.
Listen to it and you'll see that 30 seconds into my mix, the program crashes and does the broken record thing. No comments on my scratching ability, I really wasn't focusing on it - I was trying to reproduce the problem. Also, my apologies for the crappy sound quality of the mp3, my laptop does not have a line in, only a mic in so oviously there are some impedance matching problems there.
Listen to it and you'll see what I am talking about.
Posté Mon 24 Jan 05 @ 8:43 am
anewsome
Ok, I have been mixing for the last 3 hours and now this problem is so easy to reapeat it is ridiculous. To respond to the previous posts - The CPU is not too hot. This is a high end Dell desktop with giant fans front and rear and well designed case that directs the airflow over the hot spots. This isn't one of those generic build it yourself desktop boxes.
I've never touched the EQ things at all. I am using an external mixer with my two XP10s.
And now the problem is happening even when I don't touch anything while loading. The previous problem that someone had posted about scratching at the begining of the file, this is what's happening to me.
If I load up and start playing a song on deck 1 and then start scratch mixing the song on deck 2 (at the begining of the track), then it will almost certainly crash for sure.
I've recorded me doing this on this file:
http://weezy.homelinux.com/crash.mp3
This was recorded on a seperate computer than my VDJ system. I use an external mixer and my computer does not have a soundcard in it, and of course the XP10 have no input either so there is no way to record on my VDJ system. So I connected my mixer output to the input on my laptop.
Listen to it and you'll see that 30 seconds into my mix, the program crashes and does the broken record thing. No comments on my scratching ability, I really wasn't focusing on it - I was trying to reproduce the problem. Also, my apologies for the crappy sound quality of the mp3, my laptop does not have a line in, only a mic in so oviously there are some impedance matching problems there.
Listen to it and you'll see what I am talking about.
That last post was mine but it looks like Atomix is having some MySQL problems on their server, judging by the
MySQL errors being spewed onto this page, like this:
Warning: mysql_result(): Unable to jump to row 0 on MySQL result index 22 in /var/www/virtualdj/public_html/forum/writemsg.html on line 181
I've never touched the EQ things at all. I am using an external mixer with my two XP10s.
And now the problem is happening even when I don't touch anything while loading. The previous problem that someone had posted about scratching at the begining of the file, this is what's happening to me.
If I load up and start playing a song on deck 1 and then start scratch mixing the song on deck 2 (at the begining of the track), then it will almost certainly crash for sure.
I've recorded me doing this on this file:
http://weezy.homelinux.com/crash.mp3
This was recorded on a seperate computer than my VDJ system. I use an external mixer and my computer does not have a soundcard in it, and of course the XP10 have no input either so there is no way to record on my VDJ system. So I connected my mixer output to the input on my laptop.
Listen to it and you'll see that 30 seconds into my mix, the program crashes and does the broken record thing. No comments on my scratching ability, I really wasn't focusing on it - I was trying to reproduce the problem. Also, my apologies for the crappy sound quality of the mp3, my laptop does not have a line in, only a mic in so oviously there are some impedance matching problems there.
Listen to it and you'll see what I am talking about.
That last post was mine but it looks like Atomix is having some MySQL problems on their server, judging by the
MySQL errors being spewed onto this page, like this:
Warning: mysql_result(): Unable to jump to row 0 on MySQL result index 22 in /var/www/virtualdj/public_html/forum/writemsg.html on line 181
Posté Mon 24 Jan 05 @ 8:46 am
al0000
I don't agree to not touching anything when a song loading. The program is supposed to serve the user, not the other way arround.
I too had some crashes, thankfuly not on gig but when practicing.
My suggestion to the developers is: find out and kill any bug you and we can find. On a software like VDJ, which is made for live performance, stability is MUCH more appreciated/wanted than features.
That's why i still love PCDJ Red. That god damn thing hasn't crashed ONCE...not even when practicing...NEVER. 0 times on a 2 year of use!
Crashing is not acceptable, that should be their policy. That is if we're talking about a pro DJ program and not something kids use to DJ with.
Alex
I too had some crashes, thankfuly not on gig but when practicing.
My suggestion to the developers is: find out and kill any bug you and we can find. On a software like VDJ, which is made for live performance, stability is MUCH more appreciated/wanted than features.
That's why i still love PCDJ Red. That god damn thing hasn't crashed ONCE...not even when practicing...NEVER. 0 times on a 2 year of use!
Crashing is not acceptable, that should be their policy. That is if we're talking about a pro DJ program and not something kids use to DJ with.
Alex
Posté Mon 24 Jan 05 @ 4:10 pm
colonelcobwebs
amen.
Posté Mon 24 Jan 05 @ 5:01 pm
anewsome
Exactly. I mean seriously, could you imagine if atomix came out with a disclaimer that said "scratching is not supported at the begining of tracks, do so at your own risk". That would have to be about the most ridiculous thing I'd ever heard. Luckily they won't do any such thing. They will fix the program and then we'll all be happy again. I just hope they do it sooner rather than later. I can't take a chance doing a live performance when I know this bug exists.
Also, I'll echo your comments about features vs. stability. Listen closely Atomix: "I do not care if VDJ gets another single feature, EVER. As long as the bugs get discovered and squashed in a timely manner".
I think I speak for the majority of users when I say this. I don't need fancy automix features or anything else. Just fix the bugs and I'll be one happy DJ.
--Aaron
Also, I'll echo your comments about features vs. stability. Listen closely Atomix: "I do not care if VDJ gets another single feature, EVER. As long as the bugs get discovered and squashed in a timely manner".
I think I speak for the majority of users when I say this. I don't need fancy automix features or anything else. Just fix the bugs and I'll be one happy DJ.
--Aaron
Posté Mon 24 Jan 05 @ 5:01 pm
DJ Andre Landry
Ok well vdj is still pretty new....soooooo i think you should cut them a bit of slack and appreciate what this baby does.
i guess the last post wasn't clear enough
Bottom line....Work around your problems and keep writing on the forums
Problems like these should be posted in the bug section and i know for a fact that the vdj team does and will adress you problems
As a professional dj(it means i make my living as a dj)vdj has been the best thing to come out since the cd
It is a shame that you cannot do everything with this program but eventually....
We all know about the eq,analyse,unstable,other little glitches but if we keep describing our problems they will be addressed...
I worked hard to dish out bout $3000 for a IBM laptop and programs
but i succeded in running vdj with a p3 640 ram,djc,tcv,ozone usb controller...and i had my share of problems...
We have to work together and resolve all the issues..
Regards
Andre
i guess the last post wasn't clear enough
Bottom line....Work around your problems and keep writing on the forums
Problems like these should be posted in the bug section and i know for a fact that the vdj team does and will adress you problems
As a professional dj(it means i make my living as a dj)vdj has been the best thing to come out since the cd
It is a shame that you cannot do everything with this program but eventually....
We all know about the eq,analyse,unstable,other little glitches but if we keep describing our problems they will be addressed...
I worked hard to dish out bout $3000 for a IBM laptop and programs
but i succeded in running vdj with a p3 640 ram,djc,tcv,ozone usb controller...and i had my share of problems...
We have to work together and resolve all the issues..
Regards
Andre
Posté Mon 24 Jan 05 @ 5:36 pm
Bargler
Can you reproduce this crash every time?
This program is odd. I just loaded a 45 minute 192kbs mix into each deck and scratched on both sides as BOTH decks were still loading and I couldn't get a crash.
Turned on Echo and Filter for both decks and did the same thing. No crash, but there was a moment when the program did not update visually. Sound output was not effected.
At other times, I've crashed with 5 minute songs in each deck. *shrug* Strange.
This program is odd. I just loaded a 45 minute 192kbs mix into each deck and scratched on both sides as BOTH decks were still loading and I couldn't get a crash.
Turned on Echo and Filter for both decks and did the same thing. No crash, but there was a moment when the program did not update visually. Sound output was not effected.
At other times, I've crashed with 5 minute songs in each deck. *shrug* Strange.
Posté Mon 24 Jan 05 @ 6:52 pm
anewsome
No, the problem does not occur everytime. I have the same songs loaded, doing the same scratch, basically repeating exactly the same steps I did to cause the crash but instead of crashing, the program does exactly what it is supposed to. Weird indeed.
And Andre, I am appreciative of this program. It has singlehandedly got me excited about DJing again. For a guy who was fed up with digging for , storing and caring for expensive and space consuming records, this is no small task. There is no possible way that I would have room in my house or the ability to transport records that match the number of tunes that I carry on my computer. Making this collection accessible for a mobile DJ is a feat that is pulled off by VirtualDJ very well and I am thankful for that.
So it sounds like you're telling me that I need to post this in the bug forum also? I've seen posters get smacked when they cross post in the forums. I certainly don't want to get smacked.
I used to manage a group of 20 software developers so I know how tough bugs can be to track down and fix, ESPECIALLY bugs that are hard to reproduce. However, I think this bug is pretty easy to reproduce. Give me a couple mp3s and 10 minutes and I will get it crash.
Also, lately when I am using VDJ, I rarely use any "features". I load songs, I scratch mix and beatmatch. That's pretty much it. So it's not like I am pushing it to the limit.
And Andre, I am appreciative of this program. It has singlehandedly got me excited about DJing again. For a guy who was fed up with digging for , storing and caring for expensive and space consuming records, this is no small task. There is no possible way that I would have room in my house or the ability to transport records that match the number of tunes that I carry on my computer. Making this collection accessible for a mobile DJ is a feat that is pulled off by VirtualDJ very well and I am thankful for that.
So it sounds like you're telling me that I need to post this in the bug forum also? I've seen posters get smacked when they cross post in the forums. I certainly don't want to get smacked.
I used to manage a group of 20 software developers so I know how tough bugs can be to track down and fix, ESPECIALLY bugs that are hard to reproduce. However, I think this bug is pretty easy to reproduce. Give me a couple mp3s and 10 minutes and I will get it crash.
Also, lately when I am using VDJ, I rarely use any "features". I load songs, I scratch mix and beatmatch. That's pretty much it. So it's not like I am pushing it to the limit.
Posté Mon 24 Jan 05 @ 7:17 pm
Rune (DJ-In-Norway)
Scatching in the beginning of a song, can SOMETIMES be a problem.
Same using some of the effects .... like loop by 64, when there is only, say 16 beats left of song...
it doesnt happen everytime, but I have seen it happen too.
But as someone said, its a very new program, developing in fast speed (only about 1 year old).
I'm sure the scratching in beginning will be safer soon... in the same matter that other bugs have been ironed out :)
The reson for scratch, I'm GUESSING have to do with the buffer... there is nothing in the ram/buffer before the song "starts", and when moving wavedisplay hard to this side (scratching with jogs), it have happened that the program crash. I have seen that too....
Please report it at bug forum (dont matter if you cross post about that)....
I'm sure the Dev Team will look into it, and figure out a way to make that odd chance for crash go away ;)
Glad to hear VDJ made you DJ again ;)
Same using some of the effects .... like loop by 64, when there is only, say 16 beats left of song...
it doesnt happen everytime, but I have seen it happen too.
But as someone said, its a very new program, developing in fast speed (only about 1 year old).
I'm sure the scratching in beginning will be safer soon... in the same matter that other bugs have been ironed out :)
The reson for scratch, I'm GUESSING have to do with the buffer... there is nothing in the ram/buffer before the song "starts", and when moving wavedisplay hard to this side (scratching with jogs), it have happened that the program crash. I have seen that too....
Please report it at bug forum (dont matter if you cross post about that)....
I'm sure the Dev Team will look into it, and figure out a way to make that odd chance for crash go away ;)
Glad to hear VDJ made you DJ again ;)
Posté Mon 24 Jan 05 @ 7:46 pm
anewsome
I've posted my comments in the Bug forum. Hopefully they will take notice. I also hope they treat these "job ending, gig silencing, dance floor clearing" type bugs with the highest priority. I will be racked with anxiety every time I do a gig and touch the wheels on my XP10s until I am convinced that this problem is a memory.
Posté Mon 24 Jan 05 @ 9:05 pm
clax
I often play a track when it's not completely loaded yet (I use a 1.1Ghz with ... SDRam and it takes a lot of time to load the big tracks) and I don't have any problem byb doing it.
Posté Tue 25 Jan 05 @ 8:02 am
erxon
@ anewsome
Just a thought: Try disconnecting your controllers for a while and mix same way just with the mouse and keyboard - I know it sounds pointless, but if you won't be able to recreate crash this way, we'll at least know where the bug might be.
I'm still using the VDJ without any controllers (just external mixtable), and I must say that I've never had a crash with 2.06 on a 1Ghz & 384 Ram PC set-up, while using internet and some other applications at the same time.
erXon
Just a thought: Try disconnecting your controllers for a while and mix same way just with the mouse and keyboard - I know it sounds pointless, but if you won't be able to recreate crash this way, we'll at least know where the bug might be.
I'm still using the VDJ without any controllers (just external mixtable), and I must say that I've never had a crash with 2.06 on a 1Ghz & 384 Ram PC set-up, while using internet and some other applications at the same time.
erXon
Posté Tue 25 Jan 05 @ 5:27 pm
anewsome
Did you listen to my mp3 file? You can not do this kind of scratch mixing with the keyboard. You can't do backspins with the keyboard. If you load up a track and do a backspin on it while it's still loading, you are almost certain to have problems.
Posté Tue 25 Jan 05 @ 7:01 pm
erxon
No, can't do it with keyboard. But it's very much possible with a mouse, and with little practise sounds exactly as (and can do even better than) given mp3. But the point here is, it's the same function in software.
So, all I'm trying to say is to use the mouse for a TEST, to see if it's a problem with your system setup, OR a hardware communication algorithms (for controlling XP10) - because in my case and many others' (as seen from feedback), the crash isn't very common when not using this controller. If you'll have the same problems without using the controller, it is definately the problem with your setup, and not VDJ, and that is what I would like to check.
But of course, this was just a suggestion, so if you believe it won't help solving the problem - just don't test it ;)
By the way, I'd also very much like to know the possible cause of these crashes, since XP10's are on my option list for next purchase.
erXon
So, all I'm trying to say is to use the mouse for a TEST, to see if it's a problem with your system setup, OR a hardware communication algorithms (for controlling XP10) - because in my case and many others' (as seen from feedback), the crash isn't very common when not using this controller. If you'll have the same problems without using the controller, it is definately the problem with your setup, and not VDJ, and that is what I would like to check.
But of course, this was just a suggestion, so if you believe it won't help solving the problem - just don't test it ;)
By the way, I'd also very much like to know the possible cause of these crashes, since XP10's are on my option list for next purchase.
erXon
Posté Tue 25 Jan 05 @ 10:15 pm
anewsome
Well I suppose I could take the time to rip apart my setup and learn how to configure it so that I can scratch with the mouse but that would be absolutely pointless. The XP10 wheel is used for more than scratching, it's used to lead into your mix, correct beat mis-match, backspin, etc. As in take your hand and put it on the plate, spin it around to where you come into your mix on that song, rock it back and forth in rythm like you would a vinyl record and then when the point is right you let go and the music is in sync and you fade.
I honestly don't see how any of that is possible with a mouse. They would suffer the same problem as the Hercules does, no way to stop the track when you are scratching - unless you pause it before your scratch. Then the problem is you can't scratch and release on rythym since as soon as you're done scratching, the track will just sit there. With the XP10, it's just like vinyl, let go of the wheel and the track keeps going. I honestly do not see how this style of mixing is possible with a mouse.
Besides, even if the problem does not exist when you remove the XP10's, that does me absolutely no good. I need to actually work WITH the XP10s. I wish someone with TCCD would chime in to see if this problem is affecting them. If they seem to be alright then I guess my next move would be to get a couple of Pro CD decks and settle on this option as the only working setup. But I can't even be sure they work without crashing.
If the Pro CD decks with TCCD and a Maya 44USB will solve this nightmare, then an expensive road it will have been. From Hercules DJC, to VDJ Full version, to XP10s + Denon Mixer, and then finally to a pair of Denon CD players - expensive indeed. But I won't go there until I know that this problem won't be fixed soon for XP10.
I honestly don't see how any of that is possible with a mouse. They would suffer the same problem as the Hercules does, no way to stop the track when you are scratching - unless you pause it before your scratch. Then the problem is you can't scratch and release on rythym since as soon as you're done scratching, the track will just sit there. With the XP10, it's just like vinyl, let go of the wheel and the track keeps going. I honestly do not see how this style of mixing is possible with a mouse.
Besides, even if the problem does not exist when you remove the XP10's, that does me absolutely no good. I need to actually work WITH the XP10s. I wish someone with TCCD would chime in to see if this problem is affecting them. If they seem to be alright then I guess my next move would be to get a couple of Pro CD decks and settle on this option as the only working setup. But I can't even be sure they work without crashing.
If the Pro CD decks with TCCD and a Maya 44USB will solve this nightmare, then an expensive road it will have been. From Hercules DJC, to VDJ Full version, to XP10s + Denon Mixer, and then finally to a pair of Denon CD players - expensive indeed. But I won't go there until I know that this problem won't be fixed soon for XP10.
Posté Tue 25 Jan 05 @ 11:32 pm
erxon
I understand, you cannot see the functions of a mouse, if you never used it - with VDJ that is. I would instantly bought a controller the first time I got my hands on this software, but its' stability is obviously still a problem with some controllers, that's why I'm still evaluating options for best performance equipment. But I learned a lot of VDJ since then, and I assure you: all this things are possible (except for backspin, you mentioned) - the only difference from real turtntables is the smooth feeling and a little better sound performance.
But ok, all I'm looking forward to is a fast solution of this problem.
Regards, and thanks for reply.
erXon
But ok, all I'm looking forward to is a fast solution of this problem.
Regards, and thanks for reply.
erXon
Posté Wed 26 Jan 05 @ 8:42 am
